[paulhar]

gabika73, on Jul 17 2004, 11:30 AM, said:

(some text deleted)
1♠ 1NT
2♥ 2♠
3m?

Does it depend on which minor our partner bids?

Opinions? Ideas?

Always an opinion here.

I'd be afraid to bid 3H for fear that it could be passed. If partner makes a game try, knowing that I only have two spades, it seems clear to me that we want to be in game. Give partner ♠AQJ76 ♥KQ65 ♦2 ♣A65, a typical hand for a 3C bid, (the worse of the two bids you could hear, since it makes a queen worthless instead of a jack), you need only find the heart jack (plus spades 4-2) to make game. You have some additional chances in clubs. The opponents won't always lead diamonds; sometimes the opening leader thinks he has to cut down on ruffs. It's a lot clearer over 3D where you have 9 useful points.

I guess I would bid 4H, catering to 5-5, unless I thought there was the slightest chance that partner might think it was a splinter in support of his minor! Bidding the other minor could hardly be misunderstood (kind of a weird 4SF - it can't possibly be natural now.) If I thought there was a shot at both of these being misunderstood, I have to bite the bullet and bid 4S which is probably where we'll end up anyway.

I'm not going to cater to partner's singleton honor in the fourth suit since I think he should bid 2NT over 2S on that hand.

[Cascade]

gabika73, on Jul 18 2004, 04:30 AM, said:

1♠ 1NT
2♥ 2♠
3m?

I would try 3♥ to show my hand with partial major fits and some values...
Partner with a singleton honor in the 4th suit will bid 3nt, otherwise will bid his stronger major.

Opinions? Ideas?

Why would 3♥ show values?

What would you bid without values - say 6hcp?

[gabika73]

Cascade, on Jul 18 2004, 01:11 AM, said:

gabika73, on Jul 18 2004, 04:30 AM, said:

1♠ 1NT
2♥ 2♠
3m?

I would try 3♥ to show my hand with partial major fits and some values...
Partner with a singleton honor in the 4th suit will bid 3nt, otherwise will bid his stronger major.

Opinions? Ideas?

Why would 3♥ show values?

What would you bid without values - say 6hcp?

Well, from the feel of the bid.
I have shown 6-10 wioth a doubleton spade. Partner is prepared to play in 3♠ opposite anything I can hold for my bid. So, my 3♠ would be a bust. Anything else shows some extras.
I might be wrong about this, but I am much in favour of sacrificing bids of getting to the better partscore for bids to find the playable game.

So, with 6hcp, nothing to tell: 3♠, even with 3card hearts.

This is why I am not afraid that partner will pass my 3♥: this is a forward-going bid.
After all, without game-interest, with 6hcp 2344, I could have just passed his 2♥ to avoid further problems...

[1eyedjack]

I have a lot of sympathy for 2N. With a 12 count I would push for 3N and not leave partner under pressure. So 2N is a very narrow range. The contract may be at risk but I am confident partner will not raise with unsuitable hand.

10 point hands are the bugbear of 2/1, I think. I would rustle up a 1N response on as little as 5, and to shove a 6 point range in the 2S preference is in my view just asking for a lot of 3 level contracts that are going to be at greater risk than 2N on this hand, when partner makes a game try and you responder happen (next time) to be bottom of the range for your bidding to date.

[gabika73]

2nt would be the bid with some good spots in the minors, say: Q986 and JT85.
However, with this hand as it is, my minor suit honors are just too lonely.
These 10 points are 9, while those with the good spots can be 11...

[Fluffy]

I´ve been taught to play on 5-2 and not in 4-3 at low levels, I am not sure about the main reason, but think it is related with trump control: if you ruff a trick at start you are probably already under in trump lenght.

Playing on 4-3 may have an strategic isue: you are so poor that you by no means what your partner to bid anything higher.

[Cascade]

gabika73, on Jul 18 2004, 11:58 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 18 2004, 01:11 AM, said:

gabika73, on Jul 18 2004, 04:30 AM, said:

1♠ 1NT
2♥ 2♠
3m?

I would try 3♥

Why would 3♥ show values?

Well, from the feel of the bid.
I have shown 6-10 wioth a doubleton spade. Partner is prepared to play in 3♠ opposite anything I can hold for my bid. So, my 3♠ would be a bust. Anything else shows some extras.

I would play 3minor here as non-forcing.

Opener is limited by his rebid of 2♥.

Essentially 3minor says this is my hand you pick the contract.

1♠ 1NT
2♥ 2♠
3♦ ?

Pass something like ♠ xx ♥ xx ♦ AQxxx ♣ xxxx
3♥ minimum with three hearts
3♠ minimum without diamonds or three hearts
3NT maximum with a club stopper
4♦ maximum with diamonds
4♥ maximum with three hearts (probably no club stopper)
4♠ maximum with three spades

[1eyedjack]

One of the techniques I have been playing with is 2-step transfer rebids by opener wherever possible. Thus
1S-1N-2D = 6+S
1S-1N-2C = 4+H (or certain hands with Clubs)

Responder rebids next step as a relay with more than a minimum 1N response, after which opener makes his natural (step 1) rebid with no further interest. The purpose is to try to prevent you going beyond 2M opposite a wide range 1N response unless it is reasonably safe to do so.

There is of course a cost: Inability to play in 2m.

When kibbitzing some top-level tournaments on BBO I have noticed an increasing trend among top players who play FNT using some similar sort of techniques (ones that give up on 2m anyway). Complete schemes are rarely described by the commentators but I doubt that they are identical to my home-grown methods. Probably a lot better than mine.

[gabika73]

To come to think of it again, yes, I agree. 3m can be passed.
Though it might depend on the values and/or distribution needed for a 3♥ jump shift by opener.

[whereagles]

2♠ here. If pard can't find a bid over this, there's surely no game for us.

[EarlPurple]

Am I too strong for 2♠ simple preference? What do I bid on a 2-2-5-4 7-count? How does partner bid on a 5-4-2-2 16-count?

My choice is 2NT. If I get to a bad 3NT on 26-points combined, so will everyone else and I'll get a flat board. If I miss a game that makes everyone else will be in it.

[dogsbreath]

hi
nothing is perfect and pass/2s is too risky
.hence 2NT .. p is allowed to have 5-4-2-2 with minor card(s) and sh bid 3minor with good 5-4-3/1-1/3 ..
I'd prefer more in the minors for this bid but still looks best choice
Rgds Dog

Quote

furnulun pani nolo

[mishovnbg]

The big disadvantage of natural system is wide range of strength. This normally lead to regular underbid/overbid problems, like one in example. When you must guess in same positions best way is to overbid for possible game. Pass with 10 hcp as responder is ridiculous, when opener can have up to 17-18hcp(bad for suit contract, but good for your NT contract, like stiff honours). 2♠ is acceptable bid, but underbid is just wrong strategy.
Best bid is 2NT. You have perfect hand for NT: fill with high honours p long suits and low honours in side suits. Your stops are not sure? Not a perfect world...Bridge is game for bidders, like wrote Mike Lawrence! 2♠ with such wide range as 5-10hcp can lead to worse overbids from opener, with less information than responder. 2NT also give you chance to find good game on 4♥/♠, if your p rebid 3♦, in which case your hand will be perfect(i will bid 4♣ as pick up contract).
Misho