[diana_eva]

Ok, a friend asked me to forward this suggestion for an open discussion here. I will just quote his words:

"Hesitation is inherent to this game. In order to avoid suspicion, in serious games players use screens. Thus, you dont know who was slow: your opponent, or your partner. Here, on BBO, it would be really simple to implement screens. Just make the bidding box visible only when it is your turn to bid. "


Not sure if it is all that simple, but sounds like a practical solution

[diana_eva]

[QUOTE Just make the bidding box visible only when it is your turn to bid.]

clarification:

just make THE BIDDING visible only when it is your turn to bid.

[helene_t]

I think I have suggested this once myself and there wasn't much support for it.

One problem is that it becomes harder for players to identify connection problems etc. because you don't know who is slowing it down. In particular, if the table host selects this option without the other players understanding how it works, they would start accusing the wrong person for delaying the game, or calling yellows when it's unclear to them who is delaying it. Or, if the table host changes and the new host doesn't understand the feature, he might even boot the wrong player.

I think it would be useful for "serious" things like for example the Cayne matches. But it certainly shouldn't be default, and maybe not even an option everyone could set for their own table.

[diana_eva]

I doubt there are many "clever" hesitations in Cayne matches anyway
And, like any other new feature, people will eventually learn how to use it... so they call the yellows and yellows explain it

But i admit, it should be optional and announced by a default message when a player is seated, something like "This table uses screens - please wait untill your turn comes and you will be able to see the bidding". lol that sounds silly, whatever, there must be some smart text to warn people

[hotShot]

A line representing the screens could be displayed on the virtual table.
This would be visible for anyone at the table including kibs and yellows.
Connection problems are discovered by the server, so I don't think there are unsolvable problems either. But it's not that so simple as one might think. There is more to it than just delaying the display of the bids.
But indeed it would be a nice feature.

[helene_t]

But it wouldn't be like screens. You won't have a screenmate.

Playing with screens you notice your screenmate's hesitations.

If the bidding only refreshes on you turn it is as if there are cross-screens. You notice the sum of the hesitations of the three other players, not just two of them.

[hotShot]

Well of cause virtual screens should behave like real screens.

[helene_t]

Why? I like the idea that the bidding only refreshes on your own turn better. That reduces the risk of UI since you won't know that either of two other players has hesitated, only that either of three players has.

OK I suppose it's a matter of taste.

[hotShot]

I think there are 2 prototypes of bridge players, the technicians and those who have table presence. Any real player is of cause a mixture of both.
Getting informations from opponents "body language" is an important part of the game.

[hrothgar]

diana_eva, on Feb 2 2010, 12:41 PM, said:

Ok, a friend asked me to forward this suggestion for an open discussion here. I will just quote his words:

"Hesitation is inherent to this game. In order to avoid suspicion, in serious games players use screens. Thus, you dont know who was slow: your opponent, or your partner. Here, on BBO, it would be really simple to implement screens. Just make the bidding box visible only when it is your turn to bid. "


Not sure if it is all that simple, but sounds like a practical solution

Variants of this scheme have been proposed many times...

My normal rejoinder is the following:

As soon as LHO makes a bid or plays a card, I can start processing this information. By the time its my turn to play, I've had a lot of time to think about things. I'm in a much better position to be able to make an bid / play in tempo.

In contrast, using this system of virtual screens, I don't get any information until its my turn to bid. I need to immediately process LOTS of information. In turn, this will force me to spend a lot of time thinking about things (ESPECIALLY if I have any kind of problem hand)

Personally, I think that this type of system will make the whole situation worse rather than better.

I don't think that there are big problems with UI based on tempo... (Yes, that hitch might be based on a player thinking about the hand, however, its far more likely that there is a connection problem or he suddenly discovered a particularly interesting piece of porn).

[helene_t]

I think Richard is right. It is probably not such a good idea, at least not for ordinary games.

[diana_eva]

Agree, it would probably slow the game way too much

[mrdct]

I think this is quite a good idea, but should be a non-default setting for the table host to select only when they want to replicate playing with screens. The main benefit I see is that players so inclined can get the experience of playing with screens (which to me is the most enjoyable mode of play) even if they are never likely to play with screens in real life. If this is going to be implemented, however, I think it should be done as close to reality as possible, including:

A diagonal line across the table indicating that screens are in use.
During the auction and until the opening lead is made, players cannot chat to the table (they can only chat to their screenmate).
Screenmates alert and describe the bids of both themsleves and their partner (this will probably be a significant software development challenge as alert bids will need to have two explanations captured - N->E and S->W).
Differing explanations will only be automatically revealed at the end of the hand, although the declaring side will still be obliged to alert the defence to any misinformation as soon as it becomes apparent.
North and South will have an additional button to click to "pass the bidding tray".
Players see their screemates' bids in real time, but only see the bids from the other side of the screen two at a time when the virtual bidding tray is passed under the screen.

Probably something easier to implement which would reduce tempo-related UI, would be to simply have bids revealed to each player as if screens were in place, but leave everything else as it is now (principally each player self-alerts). If we go down this path, I thing a more robust connection status indicator is needed.