[dealmegold]

Playing 2/1:

♠AKxxxx
♥AKJ
♦Ax
♣QT

One spade will inevitably receive a forcing 1NT response, meaning I have to jump in hearts to force game.

On the other hand, after 2♣-2♦-2♠-3♦-3♠ it's asking a lot of partner to bid 3NT with a misfit. 2♦ is waiting.

I always regret it when I open these 2♣.

addendum: They are vulnerable. IMPS

[Codo]

These hands are no problem in a system where 2 ♣ is no GF, but at least as strong as a strong two in ACOL. I would rate this hand as a strong two. So with an american system I would try 1 ♠

If you open these hands 2 Club, you should change your system. 2 ♦ waiting is very common and in my opinion very bad.
The most common hand types after 2 ♣ are hands with a long major or strong balanced. So I prefer a system where 2 is game forcing and 2 ♥ a really bad hand. In this case you can stop in 2 ♠ with this hand opposite a non fitting yarb but play 4 if you have a fit.

[P_Marlowe]

1S.

And the bid you should certainly not make after you receive a focing 1nT
response is 3H.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Little Kid]

1♠ and after 1NT I bid 3NT. Might miss slam sometimes, maybe there is a cleverer way to bid it.

[nigel_k]

2♣ and rebid 2NT over 2♦.

This is definitely an awkward hand. I don't really like 1♠ because I am going to raise a 1NT response to 3NT (unless playing something like Gazzilli) so wouldn't gain anything over just starting with 2NT, and could miss a game if everyone passes or wrongside 3NT. I value this as slightly closer to 23 than 22 so will go via 2♣.

Opening 2♣ and rebidding 2♠ would be ok as well. There are some hands where you have to accept you could get too high after opening a GF when partner has absolutely nothing. But on this hand I think the chance to stop short of game and describe our general hand type outweighs the cases wehre a 6-2 spade fit will be better than 3NT.

[jdonn]

I don't love 1♠ because I would be forced to rebid 3♣, which despite what codo may think I do because I have to not because I want to. So I would open 2♣ which is a slight overbid the way I play, and rebid 2♠. But wow I really hate rebidding 2NT, talk about masterminding.

[jjbrr]

I'd open 2♣ with most of my partners, and like jdonn says it's a little light. Not the first time I've bid with a little less than I'd like!

[Jlall]

Too light for 2C imo

[Apollo81]

I don't love my rebid options after 1♠. Additionally, I think there is a grey area of strength where hands can be opened either 1x or 2♣, and this hand falls within this area.

2♣ for me.

[Siegmund]

" 5 losers = not a 2♣ opener " is about as close to a bidding rule with no exceptions as bidding rules get, IMO.

I don't particularly like my rebid options over 1♠-1NT either... or I didn't until I read another thread wherein many 2/1ers played 1M-1N-2N as forcing, a treatment I am liking more and more.

[nigel_k]

jdonn, on Jan 23 2010, 08:50 AM, said:

But wow I really hate rebidding 2NT, talk about masterminding.

I don't really understand why - can you explain this more?

We won't be able to play a 6-2 spade fit after a 2NT rebid but we can still play a 6-3. The gains from rebidding 2NT are when 9 tricks in NT are easier than 10 in spades, or if the 2♠ rebid leads to wrongsiding 3NT, or if partner is broke and there is no game but we can make 2NT. All of these could easily be the case IMO.

[Jlall]

Yeah 2C then 2N is not horrible at all imo. It is a better description than 2C then 2S to me.

[aguahombre]

Little Kid, on Jan 22 2010, 06:07 AM, said:

1♠ and after 1NT I bid 3NT. Might miss slam sometimes, maybe there is a cleverer way to bid it.

this approach is not even close to being a problem. The auction shows six spades in our style and is removed to 4S with every hand which has two spades, unless responder wants to try for slam.

[helene_t]

1♠ and rebid 3nt (this shows six spades, with a balaced max I would rebid 2nt).

If p doesn't understand this then I bid the same way anyway.

[Little Kid]

To me 3N also shows 6 decent ♠s and usually a bal/semi-bal hand. However I would also bid it with maxed 17-counts and more, so we may miss slam if p has a decent hand without spade support. I can think of a lot of balanced hands or hands with a nice minor where slam is looking very good without being able to bid it. Missing slam will probably happen less if you also play invitational jumps over 1♠.

[the hog]

I would bid a convntional and gf 2NT. For me, 3NT would show a different hand type.

[dkharty]

I saw this thread and almost did a double take. Last night at the club I picked up ♠AKxxx ♥AKx ♦AKx ♣xx. I was going to give the same three plausible opening bids and ask for people to rank them and explain. It's a little purer than the OP's hand, but still seemed a little light for 2♣ to me with 5 losers...maybe I need to rethink this.

[Jlall]

dkharty, on Jan 22 2010, 09:46 PM, said:

I saw this thread and almost did a double take. Last night at the club I picked up ♠AKxxx ♥AKx ♦AKx ♣xx. I was going to give the same three plausible opening bids and ask for people to rank them and explain. It's a little purer than the OP's hand, but still seemed a little light for 2♣ to me with 5 losers...maybe I need to rethink this.

Your hand is balanced, so you should not think in terms of losers, but rather in how many HCP your hand is worth. Since I would evaluate your hand as too good to open 2N, I would open 2C and rebid 2N.

[dkharty]

Jlall, on Jan 22 2010, 09:47 PM, said:

dkharty, on Jan 22 2010, 09:46 PM, said:

I saw this thread and almost did a double take.  Last night at the club I picked up ♠AKxxx ♥AKx ♦AKx ♣xx.  I was going to give the same three plausible opening bids and ask for people to rank them and explain.  It's a little purer than the OP's hand, but still seemed a little light for 2♣ to me with 5 losers...maybe I need to rethink this.

Your hand is balanced, so you should not think in terms of losers, but rather in how many HCP your hand is worth. Since I would evaluate your hand as too good to open 2N, I would open 2C and rebid 2N.

Yeah, I guess the hand looked so topheavy that I shied away from a NT evaluation of the hand. So, since you characterize this hand as balanced, would you rank the three opening bids 2♣>2NT>1♠, or do you think 2♣>1♠>2NT?

[Jlall]

With 5332 in range for 2N or 2C...2N I will always open the appropriate range of NT. While this is a debatable style if we have a hand in range of a 1N opener, I don't think it's very debatable for the stronger range hands because there is just no way to show a balanced 20 count after opening 1S playing standard methods. If you had some specialized methods, maybe it would become debatable again.

So to me it's just a question of 2N or 2C..2N, 1S is a very distant third since I will have to show a different type of hand than the one I have. 2C then 2S likewise would show a different hand.