[jjbrr]

double for me.

[P_Marlowe]

Jlall, on Jan 28 2010, 03:43 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Jan 28 2010, 03:41 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jan 28 2010, 03:25 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Jan 28 2010, 02:51 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jan 27 2010, 07:18 PM, said:

I would double, since that precludes 3NT less than overcalling 3NT precludes everything else. Certainly if partner has 5 spades it's likely we would rather play in spades than notrump.

If p has 5 spades, we still can play 4S, if we overcall 3NT, espesially,
if partner knowes, that our stopper could be poor.

With kind regards
Marlowe

How does he know we aren't 1237 with a solid minor? Overcalling 3NT doesn't promise a balanced hand, partner usually won't even pull with 6 spades.

I would expect him to pull, and personnally I promise a (semi) bal. hand,
but I agree, that a lot depends on what hands one expects to overcall 3NT
or not.
If my p has the 7321 shape (I checked, the cross sum is 13), and I pull, he
will know what to do.

With kind regards
Marlowe

lol, yeah I'm sure he'll just go back to 3N if you pull 3N...

From your remark, if I try to ignore the heat - you play 3NT, the way that
3NT says, p I know, what I am doing, I dont want to investigate any other
possible contract. Thats fine. I dont.

For me 3NT is an offer to play there, but p can suggest a better place.
From this followes, that I wont make a 3NT overcall with certain hands you
would do, and I will make a 3NT overcall with hands you wont do.

We can discuss pro and con, as long as we keep trying to discuss things
objectivly.

I was just pointing out, that 4S is not dead, if we overcall 3NT, some peoble
(maybe only the french) play a system over a 3NT overcall to discover a
better place, may mean nothing.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Looking at the voting results 3NT vs. X being equally often choosen, the
above mentioned difference of an 3NT overcall in this position may be an
explantion for why one would either choose X or choose 3NT, or the other way
around.

[Jlall]

P_Marlowe, on Jan 28 2010, 03:55 PM, said:

PS: Looking at the voting results 3NT vs. X being equally often choosen, the
above mentioned difference of an 3NT overcall in this position may be an
explantion for why one would either choose X or choose 3NT, or the other way
around.

Sorry but you are dreaming. People don't think overcalling 3N shows a balanced hand and that you can thus get to a 5-3 spade fit. Even if 3N always showed a balanced hand it is not clear why you would go to a 5 card suit...partner can have a doubleton.

But 3N just says "I think 3N might make." It can be made on a wide range of shapes and hands because it is the only way to get there. I don't believe you would not overcall 3N on A Ax AKQJxxx Jxx because 3N shows a balanced hand to you. That is just absurd. Not overcalling 3N on J KQx AKJxx AQJx (what on earth would you bid?) is also absurd. There are a lot of hands with a stiff spade where you must bid 3N out of necessity.

The reason some are bidding 3N and some are Xing is not because they think theres a difference in what 3N shows, they are just using different judgment.

[hanp]

I would not recommend thinking backwards from different histories, life gets too complicated.

This looks like an easy double though.

Justin, I think I would usually pull 3NT with 6 spades. It just seems that this will be right more often.

Edit: with Justin I of course meant Josh.

[Jlall]

hanp, on Jan 28 2010, 05:48 PM, said:

I would not recommend thinking backwards from different histories, life gets too complicated.

This looks like an easy double though.

Justin, I think I would usually pull 3NT with 6 spades. It just seems that this will be right more often.

Edit: with Justin I of course meant Josh.

I think it depends on the rest of your hand and especially on the quality of your spades. QJT9xx is a lot different than Q65432 obviously. I doubt we are very far apart in how often we would pull with 6 spades.

[bftboy]

I bid 3Nt with the hand and got hammered when P had only 4 ♠ to the KJ, and ♥ were 2-2-7-2 and righty ducks opening lead. At least it was only MPs!

I think if I have it to do over, I'd dbl with the actual hand, and bid 3NT with something like Q10x, Ax, AQx, KQxxx. The ability to hold up once in ♥ is critical.

Still don't know what I'd do if I dbl and P bids 3♠. At MPs, I'd probably pass and hope it goes plus.

[gnasher]

bftboy, on Jan 29 2010, 03:32 PM, said:

I bid 3Nt with the hand and got hammered when P had only 4 ♠ to the KJ, and ♥ were 2-2-7-2 and righty ducks opening lead. At least it was only MPs!

I think if I have it to do over, I'd dbl with the actual hand, and bid 3NT with something like Q10x, Ax, AQx, KQxxx. The ability to hold up once in ♥ is critical.

Still don't know what I'd do if I dbl and P bids 3♠. At MPs, I'd probably pass and hope it goes plus.

Having doubled, I'd bid 3NT over 3♠. From the sound of it, that wouldn't have helped much on the actual hand.