[Fluffy]

Spain and Rusia tied in the quarterfinals of the soccer indoor cup in Hungary.

So they went into the penalty shoot tiebreaker, and here is what happened:


Short version in spannish

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=17VMwnaUWDA

Longer version english

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=-spivMn56gE


In the end Spain still won but needed to win 2 sudden deaths to qualify.

There is and endless tray of referee's failures in history wich had supported UEFA's economic interests, and still UEFA rejects the use of TV/camera monitors to help on key situations. They want the power to decide who wins what not based on the game.

[jjbrr]

wow.

sports official must be one of the most difficult jobs in the world.

[Fluffy]

its just like any otherjob, do as your superior tells you and you will climb, and once at the top it will give you a lot of money

[jjbrr]

But unlike most jobs thousands, maybe millions, of people don't want to claw your eyes out for missing something that occurs in a fraction of a second.

[gwnn]

I'd have missed if I were that Russian guy but to be honest I don't think the match was rigged. It's a very convenient explanation but it's not quite believable, not this time at least. I think world cup 2002 was rigged in favour of S Korea but surely especially in futsal you can give random fouls to influence the game, you don't need to do something like this if you want to make someone win.

[Fluffy]

2002's South korea was so fun, putting a set of african semi-proffesional referee's who earn 100$ a year to official a match between players who earn $5.000.000 each (average) and expecting the referee to be impartial....


On the other side, I watch the video again and again, and it seems like the only 2 people who trully believe there was no goal are the referees. The russian goalkeeper's face is very revealing, sadly you cannot see the face of the other russians but I suspect they would be trully sad.

Also to note, the reports I read say that there is was a big screen somewhere in the room showing the replay where the goal is fully obvious, probably that's why the public started to hiss/whistle

[gwnn]

I think they're not authorized to watch the big screens as a referees. Also the refs are trained to specifically disregard these hysterical angry players' opinions. I really don't think they wanted Spain to lose.

[Lobowolf]

The analysis of sumo wrestling's being rigged in "Freakonomics" is really interesting.

[Gerben42]

FIFA and UEFA are still not using video evidence for referee decisions. I think this is incredible but apparently their power is so big that no one is starting a 2nd world soccer federation that takes this huge problem in football seriously.

There are so many examples of WRONG decisions having a huge effect on results, one of the most recent ones being France qualifying for the world cup when in fact Ireland should have.

[Aberlour10]

These stories are so old as a "Wembley Goal" 1966, it happens every weekend around the football world...so long the FIFA will not change generally the rules of judgement. A monster word in german for it: "Tatsachenentscheidung"!

[Fluffy]

its not rules of judgement, is rules of OUR judgement, since referess are controlled by FIFA so that he who the FIFA wants the most to win has greater chances of winning.

Of course FIFA doesn't wanna lose their provilege towards ordering their referees to do as they wish.

The Ireland thing was maybe worse than this, it was so obvious, but FIFA wants France in South Africa so nothing to do.

Have you questioned yourself how many times this thing favours the rich and not the poor?

[Gerben42]

Quote

   These stories are so old as a "Wembley Goal" 1966, it happens every weekend around the football world...so long the FIFA will not change generally the rules of judgement. A monster word in german for it: "Tatsachenentscheidung"!

Yes, but in 1966 there was no computer program that could tell you exactly which player was offside and by how much at the time of player X kicking the ball.

Just like we have to tell some bridge federations again and again that the 21st century has started since they didn't seem to have noticed, the same ist true for the FIFA.

The so-called "Tatsachenentscheidung" can now be checked if it is was correct or not and no human should be in the position to decide a game like that. Not only is it unfair when the referee makes a mistake, but he also can be subjected to pressure from those who want to influence the game.

Also, with sometimes many millions of euros or, even worse, the happiness of a whole nation hanging on a split-second decision, it is not acceptable that such a decision is final for the duration of the game.

[Aberlour10]

Gerben42, on Jan 27 2010, 03:45 PM, said:

Quote

   These stories are so old as a "Wembley Goal" 1966, it happens every weekend around the football world...so long the FIFA will not change generally the rules of judgement. A monster word in german for it: "Tatsachenentscheidung"!

Yes, but in 1966 there was no computer program that could tell you exactly which player was offside and by how much at the time of player X kicking the ball.

Just like we have to tell some bridge federations again and again that the 21st century has started since they didn't seem to have noticed, the same ist true for the FIFA.

you are right but... if FIFA allow to proof all these unclear situations, do you know what happen? The match will be interrupted in 1000 pieces, protest by protest, call...recall by video referee...the game will be like in american football 15 seconds action and 2 minutes for clearing such a things. If only "score-or-not-score" situations...I would appreciate it.

[hotShot]

Gerben although we entered the 21st. century this is not true all over the world.
There is some merit in the idea, that the rules of the game should be the same everywhere. So how are you going to install computer aided referees in counties that don't even have electricity in their "stadium"?
Implementing new rules that require such techniques need the support of a majority of the counties united in the FIFA. And the majority are 3rd world countries who can make better use of their money than installing this kind of gimmick.

[matmat]

that's pretty amazing. i hope that ref never officiates another game.

also, there is no reason why penalty kicks could not be used in conjunction with a video replay, in this instance it would not slow the game down at all.

some other aspects of the game, perhaps, but PKs and goals... no reason...

[gwnn]

Gerben42, on Jan 27 2010, 07:47 PM, said:

There are so many examples of WRONG decisions having a huge effect on results, one of the most recent ones being France qualifying for the world cup when in fact Ireland should have.

wtf? Ireland were never qualified in that match.

it was

Ireland-France 0-1
France-Ireland 0-1....til extra time (116th) when they scored a goal that wasn't legal...

Ireland should have? Why? because they have nicer shirts? France was dominating throughout the extra time, how do you know what would have happened in the penalties?

anyway, I agree that FIFA shouldn't have changed the drawing procedure for the play-offs. that was clearly economically influenced if you ask me but plz don't say half-truths or full blown lies like that.

[spwdo]

So often games are rigged in favour of big country/teams.

my favourite standard played eufa final in and against barcelona, they got ahead 0-1 and referee made sure barca won by given every fair and unfair advantage to them.

Belgium-germany final europe championship in 1980. Rigged
belgium-germany in WC in USA .rigged
Belgium-Brazil in Korea-Japan. Rigged

its an endless list of small countrys beeing ripped off fair results in favour of bif countrys.

the elderly amoungst us will remember the stolen final Holland_Argetine in the 70`s.

Why wont they use technical aid (video replays) to decide whter or not ball crossed line or not? its simply because once they do that theres less possibiltys to fix results

This was not fixed, only a blind referee that is disallowed to look at the screen and see his error. in futsal it wont come to penaltys once a referee decides to let one team win, he does it in the playtime. sending one or two off, freekicks given/not given etc. mucho time and ways to ripp a team off during playtime

[vuroth]

It could be worse - just look at NCAA football. Conferences vie with each other for fame and notoriety (and big money TV deals), and who officiates conference games? The refs are paid by the conference.

Huge conflict of interest. No change in sight, either.

V

[Codo]

I really lol at these examples. Every country has his history of bad descissions against them.

And every country loves to win and needs someone who is guilty when they do not. Do you think that the NEtherlands lost 74 because of the referee and his dubios penalty call? Or because they missed the best chances to score?

Yes Referees do make mistakes. Sometimes so balantly obvious and horrible mistakes that nobody can understand what they did.

So what? Did you ever watch the Bermuda Bowl final? The biggest players in the world make mistakes you and me hadn't. (At least not while watching the game...)

Did you ever watch soccer?
Do you remeber Kahn playing the tournement of his life in 2002- but losing the final on its own with a horrible mistake?

Do you remember penalties which missed the goal by far?

Do you remember all the mistakes in every sport? Not catching easy balls wide open in American football? Missing dunkings in basketball?

The shot in this scene was a hammer, I huess more then 100 km/h. Both referees made a horrible mistake and a totally wrong descission. But I would laugh at you, if you think this was to help Russia to win.


I would like to have the descissions as they are. In Germany we still talk about 66. But nobody talks about 70...
Yes the refs. makes mistakes. As humans do. But I like this human factor. It gives us something to talk about.

[Trinidad]

Codo, on Jan 28 2010, 03:30 PM, said:

Do you think that the NEtherlands lost 74 because of the referee and his dubios penalty call? Or because they missed the best chances to score?

What a typical German remark!



Rik

PS I agree with you that the referees were not rigging the game. Not in '74 and not now either.