[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

(P) 1♠ (P) 1N
(P) ?

---

2/1, how to you bid this?

[gwnn]

3♦, shows 5-4 and that you want to play game

[helene_t]

Good question, I think I would bid 2NT with an expert p and 3NT with a mortal.

IMHO 2NT shows 18-19 and is more or less forcing. P must be able to bid 3♥ as a choice of game rather than as a sign-off. With 16-17 I bid 2m, and then 2NT over the false preference.

Of course this hand could also bit 3♦ which is probably the book bid.

[aguahombre]

In the context where I would have opened 1NT with a 5332 hand and 15-17, instead of 1S, then this hand has two options:

2NT showing 18-19 balanced, or
3D standard jump shift, game forcing.

In the above context, a jump to 3NT after a forcing NT/1M can show something else, and is not needed to show the 18-19 balanced hand (like showing a big hand with a sixth spade).

In any case, I would choose 3D. Notrump is already wrong sided, so what the heck.



The other problem with a natural jump to 3NT is that responder cannot sort out the difference between getting to a spade contract with garbage non-constructive 3-card support, and getting to a spade contract with a great 3-card limit raise. (Assuming constructive immediate raises).

[jdonn]

3♦. If you wanted to treat it as balanced you should have opened it 2NT since it's clearly worth more than 19 (I would call it a maximum even after opening 2NT). I think the 2NT rebid shows 18-19, but due to frequently upgrading with a 5 card major in practice it's more like 17-18 with perhaps a few very bad 19s.

Anyway that's all fine but why can't we belong in diamonds? An ace with KQxx(x) or Kxxxxx or whatever of diamonds is slam.

[ONEferBRID]

I'd like to rebid 2NT, but the contract is already wrong-sided for NT.
Therefore, eventho I'd prefer a better, and/or longer, Diam suit, I'm going to rebid a GF 3D.... hopefully to play in one of my suits.
[ I hope later, after sufficient replies, that you will post Responder's hand ] .

[nigel_k]

helene_t, on Jan 21 2010, 07:01 AM, said:

IMHO 2NT shows 18-19 and is more or less forcing.

Is it forcing? I would upgrade quite a few 19s (including this one) to open 2NT and would be happy for partner to pass with a minimum 1NT response.

Anyway the reason that I opened 1♠ instead of 2NT must have been so I can now bid 3♦.

[peachy]

Just counting HCP, this hand is a balanced or semi-balanced 19HCP, so 1S-1NT-2NT is technically/systemically correct, the 2NT showing 18-19 balanced.

However, the hand is a control rich 19 with a nice 5-card suit for tricks and everything under control so I would bid 3D, upgrading.

[jillybean]

ONEferBRID, on Jan 20 2010, 12:17 PM, said:

I'd like to rebid 2NT, but the contract is already wrong-sided for NT.
Therefore, eventho I'd prefer a better, and/or longer, Diam suit, I'm going to rebid a GF 3D.... hopefully to play in one of my suits. 
[  I hope later, after sufficient replies, that you will post Responder's hand ] .

Responders hand:

♠8
♥A942
♦KQT93
♣T82

fwiw, I rebid 2N and discovered yet another sequence I need to discuss with my partner.

[whereagles]

you should show the diamonds because a 44 fit slam might be lurking. KQxx and a side ace is all you need.

[ONEferBRID]

jillybean, on Jan 20 2010, 04:36 PM, said:

ONEferBRID, on Jan 20 2010, 12:17 PM, said:

I'd like to rebid 2NT, but the contract is already wrong-sided for NT.
Therefore, eventho I'd prefer a better, and/or longer, Diam suit, I'm going to rebid a GF 3D.... hopefully to play in one of my suits. 
[  I hope later, after sufficient replies, that you will post Responder's hand ] .

Responders hand:

♠8
♥A942
♦KQT93
♣T82

fwiw, I rebid 2N and discovered yet another sequence I need to discuss with my partners.

TY, jillybean.

I now have another chance to show my invention that
no one else uses for the 1M - 1NTF!, 3m GF SJS.
( I've posted it before for other hands ) .

The Responder rebids that won't be used for this deal are:
   3S = initial minimum NT response with as few as 2 cards Sp
   4S = 3 card limit raise; a hand that would have jumped to 3S
over a minumum rebid of say 2C/2D/2H.. even 2NT.
   3NT = interested is neither of Opener's suits;
at most 1 card Sp and 3 cards Diam.

So the following "out-of-focus" rebids left are used to SHOW
Key Cards with 4+ card Diam support:

3H = 0 or 3
4C = 1 ( or 4 impossible )
4D = 2 - dQ
4H = 2 + dQ

Opener:
♠ AKQ62
♥ KT
♦ A762
♣ K9

Responder's hand:
♠8
♥A942
♦KQT93
♣T82

1S - 1NTF!
3D - 4H! ( 2 + dQ )
6D

What could be simpler !
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Current "standard" ( I think ... and I used to use it before ) is 4H! = advance cue to show a good hand w/ 4+ Diam support:
1S - 1NTF!
3D - 4H! = advance cue for Diam as trump
??
If Opener now goes 4NT ( RKC ), you will be committed to slam with 2 key cards... even without the trump Q....
which may be OK here since you have 9 cards, but could be more of a problem with only 8 cards trumps.

[jdonn]

So just to be clear, what does responder do over 3♦ with x KQJT9x xx xxxx?

[kenrexford]

I would have opened 2NT. Real close to 2♣...2NT, actually.

[straube]

Kaplan-Ruben evaluates opener's hand as 21.3

I'd open 2N to protect the Kx doubletons and to keep things simple.

I like for 1S-1N, 2N to be a GF and not necessarily balanced. For instance, I could have a 5431 or 6331 pattern as well as this 5-2-4-2 pattern. Partner loses the comfort of knowing that I have doubleton support for his independent suit, but knows that if I jump rebid a suit, that I'm suit-oriented (usually 5/5).

I don't like the sequence 1S-1N, 3D if it only shows a 5/4 hand. It takes up too much room and expresses too much preference for spades and diamonds.

1S-1N, 2N helps when I have something like AKJxxx AQx KQx x. We could easily belong in three different suits and I want to leave room for partner to describe his hand.

After 1S-1N, 2N we could continue naturally, but it would be better to use transfers (like variants of Wolff sign off).

The partnership has to decide how opener should show 6/4 hands. If they're good suits, it's probably best to show the second suit and then rebid the first suit such as in...

1S-1N, 3D-4D, 4S
or
1S-1N, 3D-3N, 4S

[ONEferBRID]

jdonn, on Jan 20 2010, 06:48 PM, said:

So just to be clear, what does responder do over 3♦ with x KQJT9x xx xxxx?

You would wonder why there are two ♥ K's .

So let's Opener has x x in Hts and A K x x in Diam ( initially erroneously had put the Diam K in with the Hts ).

As ugly as it is... 3NT.

Opener has ostensibly shown a strong 2-suiter.... perhaps w/ 6 cards Sp... He could be void in Hts.
He might just "correct" to 4S.
In the long run it can't be right to introduce a natural new suit
in this class of auctions.

[jdonn]

ONEferBRID, on Jan 20 2010, 08:31 PM, said:

In the long run it can't be right to introduce a natural new suit in this class of auctions.

I'm trying not to use too many LOLs these days. But how else am I supposed to respond to such an absurd comment?

You took away not only the lowest bid in both unbid suits, but the game bids in both unbid suits! And all for making keycard responses in partner's minor? You have 5 bids dedicated to his second suit in a minor and 0 for the major that you may be certain you want to play in! How can that be right in the long run?

[the hog]

ONEferBRID, on Jan 21 2010, 08:31 AM, said:

jdonn, on Jan 20 2010, 06:48 PM, said:

So just to be clear, what does responder do over 3♦ with x KQJT9x xx xxxx?

You would wonder why there are two ♥ K's .

So let's Opener has x x in Hts and A K x x in Diam ( initially erroneously had put the Diam K in with the Hts ).

As ugly as it is... 3NT.

Opener has ostensibly shown a strong 2-suiter.... perhaps w/ 6 cards Sp... He could be void in Hts.
He might just "correct" to 4S.
In the long run it can't be right to introduce a natural new suit
in this class of auctions.

I would have bid 3D over 1NT.
With this responding hand it is 100% obvious to me to bid 4H to play! No, a good partner will not pull this to 4S. Pray tell, OneferBrid, what are you going to use as an entry to the H suit in a NT contract?

[bluecalm]

Imo you need to play Gazilli in those sequences to obtain reasonable precision. GF jumps with either 5-5 or 5-4 are not playable in my humble opinion.
Having to jump with :

AKxx
AKx
KQxx
x

Is enough for me to never agree to play such system.

[ONEferBRID]

jdonn, on Jan 20 2010, 08:44 PM, said:

ONEferBRID, on Jan 20 2010, 08:31 PM, said:

In the long run it can't be right to introduce a natural new suit in this class of auctions.

I'm trying not to use too many LOLs these days. But how else am I supposed to respond to such an absurd comment?

You took away not only the lowest bid in both unbid suits, but the game bids in both unbid suits! And all for making keycard responses in partner's minor? You have 5 bids dedicated to his second suit in a minor and 0 for the major that you may be certain you want to play in! How can that be right in the long run?

New suit at the 3-level ( if space ) is OK .
I meant new suit at the 4-level .

EDIT: btw.... I have only 4 bids ( not 5 ) dedicated to the 2nd suit and 2 for the Major ... where do you get zero ?

[jdonn]

3♥ 4♣ 4♦ 4♥ 5♣ 5♦ = 6, I missed one
Bids that show hearts = 0