[bftboy]

This is kind of the flip side of the hand I posted the other day. P bids 1♠, and you hold a charmer like x Q10xx xx KJxxxx. You bid 1nt forcing and P rebids 2♦. What now? I am just trying to sound out some opinions on how to handle these sorts of hands, relative advantages and disadvantages of methods, etc.

thx,

[helene_t]

I pass. 3♣ might get doubled.

[jdonn]

I pass too, more because I worry about him bidding again over 3♣ (like he might bid 3♦ and then I'll really wish I had passed).

[Fluffy]

3-2 fit sometimes make on this kind of hands, this one looks a bit desperate though.

[the hog]

I give false preference to 2S. I do not pass 2D.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

2S.

I think that is pretty clear - unless you play 2D as guranteing a 4 carder,
a common, but not universal agreement, and even if 2D showes a 4 carder,
I would bid 2S.

The problem you describe is also existing playing standard, i.e. when
the 1 NT response is nonforcing.
Playing forcing NT, you can agree to play art. stuff, which allow you partially to
avoid bad fits, if you happen to hold a hand you described, but there is no 100%
solution, sometimes you have to pray and hope for the best.

As a general rule: Always convert to p first suit even if you have 1 card more in
p 2nd suit, many may not agree with this general rule, but well if you adopt the
rule, you will at least avoid a lot of headaches.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[peachy]

This hand falls in a crack in whatever the system is. I would pass and hope nobody doubles. If doubling begins, I might bid 3C, but then when partner corrects to 3D, we are deeper in the mud than we were the round before.

[awm]

Giving us this hand, I generated 10000 random hands for opener. Here are opener's shapes:

5♠3♥3♦2♣: 2019 times
5♠1♥4♦3♣: 720 times
5♠0♥4♦4♣: 69 times
5♠2♥4♦2♣: 1775 times
5♠3♥4♦1♣: 1424 times
6♠-4♦: 1371 times
5♠-5♦: 1752 times
Eleven or more cards in the pointed suits: 870 times

This suggests to me that bidding 3♣ is a good idea. Passing or correcting to spades will lead to a fit of six or fewer cards on a substantial majority of the hands. Partner will have at least a doubleton club more than half the time (keep in mind that some of the 5-5 and 6-4 hands will have 2+ clubs as well as the hands from the top four categories). Of course it helps if we play invitational jump shifts, so partner knows that a 3♣ bid in this auction is "to play" and not a try for game.

[mike777]

Pass.

2s second choice.

3c for me would be invite


I dont have a way to show weak hand with long clubs starting with 1s so after:

1s=1nt
2d=?

[jdonn]

Adam I see two major problems.

One is when we are this weak and partner is a minimum 5332 the opponents are likely to have overcalled diamonds by now. For that matter the same concern applies to hearts on any of the shapes with 0-1. But of course I don't doubt pass could reach a 3-2 fit, I'm just saying if you consider opponents passing throughout then I'm sure you are overstating it.

The other is that part of the problem is partner might take a 3rd bid. When our hand is this bad then the action that ends the auction might not be a bad idea. It's all well and good to reach your club fit but you might not stop there.

But bidding 3♣ is not a bad idea. The bid that makes no sense to me at all is 2♠, combining the likelyhood of a dumb fit with the possibility partner bids again.

[Al_U_Card]

If 2 D promises 4 then I would pass. If not, I would bid 3C to play, as I learned it originally back in the 80's.

2S? The only time I would expect that I might have to play in a fit where the opps have more of our trumps than we do is when I open a weak 2. (And then, at least, I have all 6 in one hand.)

[Stephen Tu]

jdonn, on Jan 19 2010, 11:49 AM, said:

One is when we are this weak and partner is a minimum 5332 the opponents are likely to have overcalled diamonds by now.

I think you are overstating this. (1) Opps won't overcall diamonds when they split 4-4, which takes out almost a third of these. (2) Opps with reasonable 2 level overcall suit quality requirements will stop them from acting on a decent chunk of the large # of 5-3 splits (3) We are short in spades, that gives opps more spades, = they are less likely to make takeout double, plus the spade holding may discourage them from acting on some marginal overcall hands.

Quote

The other is that part of the problem is partner might take a 3rd bid.

A good partner shouldn't bid very often here. He knows you are weak and misfit, he should cede to the weak hand long suit, even with most extreme 2 suiters. He didn't jump-shift his 2nd turn, I see opener bidding on practically never. At least opener should make a 3rd bid practically never, IMO (without some sort of club fit).