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(2♥) - P - (2♠) - 2nt
P - ??
2♥ is a standard weak 2, 6+ hearts and 2♠ is an unalerted and presumably forcing natural call.
It isn't an auction I'd seen before and on the one hand it seems "unusual" so could be a long minors preempt, but on the other hand we don't usually preempt over a preempt and a X here could also suggest minors, so maybe it should be natural.
But we also don't really know who's hand it is, and 2♠ is also frequently psyched, so I'm not sure how that effects what our agreements should be. Should this be a two-way bid that depends on our shape and strength?
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What should 2nt mean in "standard" undiscussed bidding?
#1
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Posted 2010-January-16, 18:48
#2
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2010-January-16, 19:05
edit: I'm not sure now. what I know is that most bridge players would take it as minors. I had the urge of strong NT-ish for hearts but I mean we will sometimes have minors here and starting with 3m or 4N is not very heart warming.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#3
- Alchemist
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Posted 2010-January-16, 20:03
Would never occur to me that it might not be minors. Even if 2H is weak, 2S is (ostensibly) strong.
The psyching argument is intriguing, but even common pyschs are rare enough that it'd be strange for the undiscussed meaning of a bid to be psych-trapping.
The psyching argument is intriguing, but even common pyschs are rare enough that it'd be strange for the undiscussed meaning of a bid to be psych-trapping.
#4
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2010-January-17, 03:45
In any auction that goes
(preempt) pass (new suit)
I think you should just pretend that all they've done is bid the first suit. In this case:
double = takeout of hearts
2NT = natural
3♠ = natural
The relevant question isn't "How likely is it that they've psyched?" What matters is (a) "How likely is it that they've psyched and I'd want to bid?" and (b) "How likely is it that they haven't psyched and I'd want to bid?"
If 2♠ is genuine, it's not very likely that you'll want to act. RHO is fairly strong, the opponents haven't found a fit, they've got both of the majors, you're more likely to be on lead than not, and it will be easy for them to double you when you're wrong.
My suggested approach also saves you from having to think about what to do over a 2♠ which is constructive but non-forcing.
(preempt) pass (new suit)
I think you should just pretend that all they've done is bid the first suit. In this case:
double = takeout of hearts
2NT = natural
3♠ = natural
The relevant question isn't "How likely is it that they've psyched?" What matters is (a) "How likely is it that they've psyched and I'd want to bid?" and (b) "How likely is it that they haven't psyched and I'd want to bid?"
If 2♠ is genuine, it's not very likely that you'll want to act. RHO is fairly strong, the opponents haven't found a fit, they've got both of the majors, you're more likely to be on lead than not, and it will be easy for them to double you when you're wrong.
My suggested approach also saves you from having to think about what to do over a 2♠ which is constructive but non-forcing.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#5
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Posted 2010-January-17, 04:12
Agree with gnasher, 2NT should be natural and strong, takes some courage.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
#6
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Posted 2010-January-17, 06:31
Agree with gnasher
#7
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Posted 2010-January-17, 06:33
hanp, on Jan 17 2010, 05:12 AM, said:
Agree with gnasher, 2NT should be natural and strong, takes some courage.
less courage after you've seen it or done it a few times but like you I agree with gnasher.
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
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