[bftboy]

P bids 1♥ and I hold something like Jx Q xxx AKQxxxx. My pref is to bid 2♣ GF, then when I rebid 3♣ over, say 2♦, the GF is cancelled. P can pass, bid 3nt, bid 3♥, raise ♣'s, etc. obviously if P makes a strength-showing bid, the GF is still on.

I guess my question is, if you're NOT playing the agreement that rebid of one's minor cancels the GF, then how do you handle in-between hands like this in 2/1?

thx

[matmat]

a lot of people play a jump to 3♣ as an invitational hand with a good 6 card club suit.

[cherdanno]

What matmat says, but with this hand, please force to game, typ. You have 7 running tricks plus extra help opposite an opener, what else do you need to force to the level of 3NT? This hand has extras for 2♣ GF.

[Jlall]

yeah game force without the HQ and SJ obviously

[neilkaz]

This is a clear GF with 7 almost certain running ♣ tricks and a helping Q in PD's suit.

I will comment that I much prefer the method where 2/1 is GF and is still GF if you repeat your suit, but there are two clear sides to this arguement.

[Vilgan]

matmat, on Jan 16 2010, 12:15 PM, said:

a lot of people play a jump to 3♣ as an invitational hand with a good 6 card club suit.

This. Although as already mentioned, your example hand is clearly a GF hand. 9 tricks for NT and you can probably supply 7 by yourself after partner opened? Advantage to rebidding still being a GF is when partner bids 2♦ now you can rebid 3♣ hoping to get partner to declare the 3NT.

[neilkaz]

Vilgan, on Jan 16 2010, 12:37 PM, said:

matmat, on Jan 16 2010, 12:15 PM, said:

a lot of people play a jump to 3♣ as an invitational hand with a good 6 card club suit.

This. Although as already mentioned, your example hand is clearly a GF hand. 9 tricks for NT and you can probably supply 7 by yourself after partner opened? Advantage to rebidding still being a GF is when partner bids 2♦ now you can rebid 3♣ hoping to get partner to declare the 3NT.

A major advantage is that PD knows you are GF with a hand full of ♣ and hopefully if you belong in 5♣ (no ♠ stopper) or slam is making there's time to find out again noting GF.

[nigel_k]

The actual hand is an easy game force anyway. But to answer your question, you do need two ways to show a single suited minor hand and less than a game force because the range is much too wide if you respond 1NT and rebid the minor on all of them.

I would definitely play 2/1 then rebid as GF and the hands where you want it as GF are actually quite common. A direct 3♣ or 3♦ response is one option but I prefer to use those for other things.

IMO you can manage just starting with 1NT as follows:

After a 1♥ opening it's a bit easier because you have 1NT then 2♠ available as an artificial bid. Probably most people play 1♥-1NT-2♦-2♠ as a diamond raise and better than 3♦ directly. But you could also include the stronger single suited club hands in 2♠ and opener bids 2NT to find out whether you have clubs or diamonds.

After a 1♠ opening and opener rebids 2♣ you can use Bart with a good diamond hand and just bid 3♦ with the weaker one.

After a 1♠ opening and opener rebids 2♦ you don't really have an answer so either agree to bid 2NT with good and 3♣ with bad, or to bid 3♣ with good and just have to pass or give preference otherwise.

[mike777]

bftboy, on Jan 16 2010, 12:03 PM, said:

P bids 1♥ and I hold something like Jx Q xxx AKQxxxx.  My pref is to bid 2♣ GF, then when I rebid 3♣ over, say 2♦, the GF is cancelled.  P can pass, bid 3nt, bid 3♥, raise ♣'s, etc.  obviously if P makes a strength-showing bid, the GF is still on. 

I guess my question is, if you're NOT playing the agreement  that rebid of one's minor cancels the GF, then how do you handle in-between hands like this in 2/1?

thx

with an invite hand in minor for the most part I would start with 1nt and rebid 2nt.
alternative is to play 1h=1nt=2d=3c as invite.

that makes all 2/1 100% g ame force.


chances are when you have a weak hand and a long minor the opp will be in the bidding and then you can just bid natural.

[FrancesHinden]

bftboy, on Jan 16 2010, 05:03 PM, said:

I guess my question is, if you're NOT playing the agreement that rebid of one's minor cancels the GF, then how do you handle in-between hands like this in 2/1?

Some other way, obviously!

You can play a 3m response to 1M to show an invitational hand.
I play conventional continuations after 1M - 1NT which allow responder to show both strong and weak hands with a long minor (at the expense of not ever being able to play in 2C, and being forced to at least 2H if opener is balanced)

[Winstonm]

My understanding of how Mike Lawrence suggested handling this problem was to consider the 2/1 game forcing unless opener's rebid suggested a misfit.

In other words, 1S-2D-2N-3D became game force as 2N showed at least 2 diamonds.
But 1S-2D-2H-3D was not forcing as opener could be on a diamond void.

Obviously, in the latter case you have to use 4th suit forcing if you have a good hand, but that is not that serious of problem.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

To answer to your question in a more generic way:

Playing 2/1 you have basically 3 ways of bidding 3C, after p openes in a major

#1 via a jump shift
#2 via bidding 2C, followed by rebidding the suit
#3 via a forcing NT seq.,
1M - 1NT
2? - 3C

Now you have 3 ways to 2 show 3 hand strengths - weak, invitational, GF,
and it basically does not really matter, which way showes, which hand strength,
all 3 ways are possible, and get used.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

or you can choose to not have a way to show a weak, long minor suited hand if the bidding does not go 1x1y1z. At some point you need to decide which system holes you are willing to live with, hoping to gain on other types of hands.