[Adobe BC]

Scoring: MP

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1♥- P - 3♥* - 4♠
5♥ - P** - P - ?

*3♥ was properly alerted as weak.

**Hesitation

Would you adjust when a double or a 5♠ bid is successful?

[TylerE]

What kind of hesitation are we talking about? 5 seconds? 10? 30?

While it may not technically be a skip bid, I think this is a situation where it's totally approiate for the player to think for 10 seconds or so before calling, even if he has no intention of bidding.

I don't think hesitation suggests X or 5♠ specifically, so I don't think I roll back either action, but again it kinda of depends on the hesitation for me. Not totally sure I'd consider pass an LA here in any case.

[matmat]

how quickly was the 5H call made?

[peachy]

Since nothing was mentioned about tempo of 4S and 5H bids, should I assume there was a 10 sec pause for both 4S and 5H. This auction is one where it is normal for tempo to slow down a little so a mild slowness should be acceptable, in fact I would think it is normal. I would allow 4S bidder now to choose whatever call he wants to make, unless the pause by his partner was longer than a slight slowness.

[blackshoe]

Is pass an LA?

[mjj29]

blackshoe, on Jan 12 2010, 05:20 PM, said:

Is pass an LA?

I'm pretty sure pass isn't an LA, but I'm not sure which of bid or double is suggested, or which I'd choose

[jdonn]

I think it's very unlikely partner will have a hand to double 5♥ (assuming we aren't in a forcing pass auction for this pair), and very likely partner will have some spade length given our relative shortness and the opposition bidding. So I think a break in tempo demonstrably suggests bidding 5♠.

That being said, on an expert level I don't think there is an LA to doubling, but lots of "worse" players might well bid 5♠ and I bet some would even pass. So if we are discussing LAs it depends on the level of the player and is a judgment call.

So my ruling is no adjustment if this hand doubles. If it bids 5♠ I probably adjust but need to be there and judge things for myself.

[blackshoe]

Seems like there's no cause for adjustment, then.

[bluejak]

I think there is no case for adjusting if a good player doubles or a bad player bids 5♠. I am more interested in the reverse cases.

[jdonn]

bluejak, on Jan 12 2010, 08:13 PM, said:

I think there is no case for adjusting if a good player doubles or a bad player bids 5♠. I am more interested in the reverse cases.

I sort of agree, but also interesting are the in between cases. Unless every player is either good or bad.

[Codo]

At least in your definition I am a bad player, I would think that x is suggested so I would never ever choose this call.
If you disagree why isn't double suggested by the hesitation?

[lamford]

bluejak, on Jan 12 2010, 08:13 PM, said:

I think there is no case for adjusting if a good player doubles or a bad player bids 5♠.

I think I understand this; if you poll a number of bad players I think they will press on to Five Spades. I feel sure that double is the right bid, and if you poll good players this would be the majority choice. For a poor player, nothing is demonstrably suggested by the hesitation; for a good player, I cannot see how he can tell whether partner was thinking of doubling or bidding Five Spades, so again nothing is demonstrably suggested.

I am not sure that a poll is that relevant; if nothing is demonstrably suggested, then all bids are allowed, for players of all abilities.

[Vampyr]

lamford, on Jan 13 2010, 02:17 PM, said:

I am not sure that a poll is that relevant; if nothing is demonstrably suggested, then all bids are allowed, for players of all abilities.

I have never liked this reasoning, though I realise it is correct.

If defending undoubled is a LA, it seems to me that it shouldn't matter what action partner was thinking of taking.

[Codo]

I still don't get it.

Partner does not have a balanced hand with no points.
So maybe he holds a 4261 yarborough and 5 spade is the best possible result.

Or he has a 3334 with QJT of hearts, where double is often best.

Double caters for both cases, so why should we ever allow double- the auction that is clearly right? Partner will pull with the distibutional hand and pass with a balanced one.

(Of course double is a no brainer for good players without the hesitation, but this is not the question here...)

[ggwhiz]

I find this one tough. Based on the size of the tank, body language etc. I could make a case for any of the suggested rulings including pass (at matchpoints, not imps).

Uncovering those facts can be nearly impossible when the true violation would be a fast pass with nothing yet I can't recall seeing any of those rulings.

I have seen and disagreed with a few NABC ones that punished what I thought would be mandatory pauses and so would tend to allow whatever action was taken over 5H.

[lamford]

Vampyr, on Jan 13 2010, 08:50 AM, said:

If defending undoubled is a LA, it seems to me that it shouldn't matter what action partner was thinking of taking.

If pass was an LA, and "bidding on" was demonstrably suggested, then I would agree with you. The latter is the case, but I think most are agreed that Pass is not an LA.

Now, you could argue, and I think codo does, that the bid that caters for whatever partner was thinking about is double, and that is therefore disallowed. But I am not sure that meets the test of double being demonstrably suggested by the BIT - although I could be persuaded otherwise. But I could not be persuaded to impose Pass, and I could not be persuaded to disallow the poor 5S bid; for a good player it might be (his) ethical choice as he understands the rules.

[jdonn]

Codo, on Jan 13 2010, 09:36 AM, said:

I still don't get it.

Partner does not have a balanced hand with no points.
So maybe he holds a 4261 yarborough and 5 spade is the best possible result.

Or he has a 3334 with QJT of hearts, where double is often best.

Double caters for both cases, so why should we ever allow double- the auction that is clearly right? Partner will pull with the distibutional hand and pass with a balanced one.

(Of course double is a no brainer for good players without the hesitation, but this is not the question here...)

In the context of our actual hand, partner is (IMO),
- less likely to be thinking of doubling because our hand is so good
- more likely to be thinking of raising since we have so few spades and since the opponents' bidding suggests spade shortness
So I think the hesitation suggests bidding over doubling.