[Mbodell]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 10 2010, 03:36 AM, said:

Hanoi5, on Jan 9 2010, 12:32 AM, said:

The thing is that I thought 14-03 was standard at the moment but I've been told that a lot, almost all, players in BBO use the old version, why's that?

I think it's the person who told you that 14-03 was "standard at the moment" who was wrong. I would say that the world of people who play one or the other is split roughly into two, and neither is "standard".

Playing in the UK, if I hadn't discussed it beforehand I would always assume 03-14; that (I think) is the 'normal' way round and if you want to play it the other way round you need to agree it beforehand.

It is likely location dependent like many other bridge things. I'd say in northern California that 1430 beats 3014 even more strongly than 15-17 beats 12-14 no trump ranges (and 15-17 is "standard" around here).

[barmar]

On the ACBL convention card there are two checkboxes, "Roman Keycard Blackwood" and "1430". This implies that the default response structure is 03-14. Among the people I've played with, 1430 is far more popular, but everyone knows that you have to agree to check that box when filling out the CC.

I think the reason 03-14 was used at first is simply due to the parallel with regular Blackwood: higher steps show more key cards.

I think this is the explanation for many of the conventions that have later been reversed. Back in the days of Goren, the general rule was that you bid more when you have more: e.g. strong twos, double raises game forcing, etc. (my mother said that they "bid what they thought they could make"). Over time, bidding theorists realized that this was very wasteful, as strong hands need more room to show things on the side to look for slams. So convention by convention, we've slowly been reversing that old fashioned logic.

[blackshoe]

fromageGB, on Jan 10 2010, 08:40 AM, said:

blackshoe, on Jan 10 2010, 02:15 PM, said:

I'm not sure what to call that, Fromage, but it doesn't look like any form of Roman Keycard Blackwood to me.

No, it was a comment on a kickback treatment. Apologies for drifting off the topic of the OP itself.

The point is that if you are restricted to have 4NT as essentially the only ace asking bid, then RKCB makes good sense. But if a bid at the 4 level is an ace ask with trumps being the suit below, ie you are playing kickback, then RKCB ace responses are unnecessary, inefficient, and best not used.

And yet when Jeff Rubens originally proposed Kickback, he did not suggest changing the RKCB steps, simply saying that the purpose of Kickback was to allow asker the same amount of room with any lower suit as when spades are trump (and 4NT is the ask).

Anyway, I'd need to see a fuller exposition of your response structure and the rationale behind it to know whether I agree with you - but I suppose that's a topic for a different thread.

[hanp]

Obviously 1430 is easier to remember and it has a positive ring to it.

[shevek]

Certainly 14-30 is a bit better with hearts, partly because you can stop out after
4NT - 5♣ - 5♦ - 5♥.

I use it with clubs as well. Usually I'm virtually certain that pd has 1+ KC so we can have
4NT - 5♣ - no.

I think 3041 remains dominant for 2 reasons
1) It's the original. Stayman recommended 4C & 4D as WEAK major openings. Didn't take long for the original to fade away.
2) It gains when there is some confusion about the status of 4NT. If you mean it as simple BW but are concerned that partner thinks it's RKC, you are more likely to survive with 3041 (especially if you have the king of trumps!)