[Jlall]

I'd definitely bid 2C

[kenrexford]

A challenge:

For those who double in this sequence almost all the time, please describe a hand where you would bid 2♣. (No one responding has yet.)

[Jlall]

kenrexford, on Jan 7 2010, 07:11 PM, said:

A challenge:

For those who double in this sequence almost all the time, please describe a hand where you would bid 2♣.  (No one responding has yet.)

Seriously? 2155 would not reopen X. 2164, 3064, 3055, sometimes 4054. Any 6-5 in the minors.

Also don't know about other people, but reopening X with all 1255 and 0355 is stupid. --- xxx KQJxx KQJxx would be an obvious 2C for anyone.

[kenrexford]

Jlall, on Jan 7 2010, 07:17 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Jan 7 2010, 07:11 PM, said:

A challenge:

For those who double in this sequence almost all the time, please describe a hand where you would bid 2♣.  (No one responding has yet.)

Seriously? 2155 would not reopen X. 2164, 3064, 3055, sometimes 4054. Any 6-5 in the minors.

Also don't know about other people, but reopening X with all 1255 and 0355 is stupid. --- xxx KQJxx KQJxx would be an obvious 2C for anyone.

Your opinion on this doesn't count, because you bid rationally (like me ). I'm wondering what the people who double with this hand would mean by 2♣. LOL

[jdonn]

kenrexford, on Jan 7 2010, 07:11 PM, said:

A challenge:

For those who double in this sequence almost all the time, please describe a hand where you would bid 2♣.  (No one responding has yet.)

Factors to make me rebid 2♣: Better clubs, worse defense, and/or worse/fewer hearts than on this hand. Justin's example of - xxx KQJxx KQJxx fits all of those factors and seems like a perfect 2♣ bid to me.

As for your earlier objection, technically you are correct. I'll leave it as a thought exercise for you to figure out what I meant rather than my misuse of 'natural', or you can continue to lukewarm me by picking holes in the exact way I make the argument at the expense of discussing the actual point.

Despite the support for 2♣ I still hate it. I think Siegmund is the only one who has made any sort of real argument in its favor.

[Jlall]

The argument for 2C is pretty obviously that we don't want to defend 1S X without a trump on a marginal hand. The argument for X is obviously that we do want to defend 1S X... I don't really know what kind of argument you're looking for. Most bridge decisions have obvious plusses and minusses, and stating them may make people on the forums happy but eventually it just comes down to which you think is right.

[Free]

Wow I was surprised so many doubled! I'd definitely bid 2♣ because I don't want to defend 1♠X...

[Jlall]

I just feel like not having a trump to play through at some point costs the defense so much, and at the 1 level it won't be hard for them to scramble tricks if we are not able to lead trumps.

Also there is a pretty decent chance of pushing them to 2S even if partner is trap passing 1S by bidding. There are many hands I would pass over a X but bid 2S over 2C if I was LHO.

[eyhung]

I'm a 2♣ bidder too. I consider the opening marginal with no spades (if they have the spades, we have to go one level higher; if partner has the spades, my hand doesn't fit), and below-average defense (only 1.5 quick tricks). Since we are not vulnerable and we have a little extra high-card strength, I will grudgingly accept the open but then I would not dare reopen with double. My hand has sub-par defense, it has no trump (so dummy will not be so bad for declarer and I can't lead trump for partner), they are at the 1-level, and they are not vulnerable. Partner pretty much needs to have 6+ defensive tricks in hand for us to do well vs. 1S-X.

Instead of trying to take 7 tricks with a void in their trump suit, how about trying to take 8 tricks with the better fit of one of my 5-card minors as trump? The clubs are not good, but all I need is one extra trick on offense, and bidding 2♣ will identify our longest minor suit fit.

Double does have some upside : it gives us the best chance of finding hearts if that's right and still gives us the opportunity to get to clubs or diamonds as well. I just hate the prospect of 1S-X for the reasons mentioned above. If you could guarantee to me that partner would not pass 1S-X, then double is clear. Unfortunately that's not realistic, so I take the 2♣ road.

[whereagles]

kenrexford, on Jan 8 2010, 12:11 AM, said:

A challenge:

For those who double in this sequence almost all the time, please describe a hand where you would bid 2♣. (No one responding has yet.)

a hand with high ODR, wtp?

xx
x
KQJxx
KQJxx

by the way, I'm not the sort of person who doubles almost always (so I guess I should not have answered this lol)

[billw55]

But defending 1♠x is not the only possible outcome from double. Maybe partner has five hearts. Maybe he has four hearts and playing there doesn't suck with KJx opposite. Maybe he'll go to his longer minor and we're no worse off than if I bid 2♣.

True, sometimes partner will decide to leave it in and they make. Is there a perfect bid where nothing can go wrong?

As for hands that bid 2♣, that isn't so hard. Even on this hand, just keep the shape and move the heart honors to clubs. voila

[Jlall]

lol, if partner has 4 or 5 hearts and not a trap pass, how many points does he have? Do you think it is our hand?

[billw55]

Jlall, on Jan 8 2010, 09:32 AM, said:

lol, if partner has 4 or 5 hearts and not a trap pass, how many points does he have? Do you think it is our hand?

No, but do you never try to push ops one higher?

edit: actually hmm, the more I think about this the more I see your point. On the auction the trap pass is by far the most likely thing partner can have.

[mike777]

One style to play is to never, never trap pass at unfav.......but we are at nv here.

Another is to avoid reopening with an x with a void at low levels....

[lifemonster]

billw55, on Jan 8 2010, 02:08 PM, said:

But defending 1♠x is not the only possible outcome from double. Maybe partner has five hearts. Maybe he has four hearts and playing there doesn't suck with KJx opposite. Maybe he'll go to his longer minor and we're no worse off than if I bid 2♣.

If partner has 5 hearts and some value he would have made a negative dbl already. If partner has 5 hearts and doesn't even have strength to make a 1st time negative dbl, with your marginal opener, you are not gonna buy the hand.

[pooltuna]

billw55, on Jan 8 2010, 09:08 AM, said:

[snip]

True, sometimes partner will decide to leave it in and they make.  Is there a perfect bid where nothing can go wrong?

[snip]

Of course there are but they are so rare you've never seen one I will give you a 4333 version ♠AKQ♥AKQ♦AKQ♣AKQJ