[dicklont]

Scoring: IMP

2/1 bidding.

---

Obviously you make 12 tricks in 6NT, maybe 13.
But were do you end and how do you get there?

[nigel_k]

How about 1♠-2♦-2♠-3♦-4NT-5♠-7♦?

[mike777]

dicklont, on Dec 31 2009, 03:19 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

2/1 bidding.

---

Obviously you make 12 tricks in 6NT, maybe 13.
But were do you end and how do you get there?

1s=2d(100% gf)
2s(6)=3d
4h(rkc for d, kickback)=etc.


I grant this may be more complicated if 2d is not gf and 2s is not 6

[P_Marlowe]

nigel_k, on Dec 31 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

How about 1♠-2♦-2♠-3♦-4NT-5♠-7♦?

Looks so simple, it cant be the solution.

You can make the seq. slightly more complicate, if you add King ask to the seq.,
to find out about the King of clubs, to make the seq. look more professional.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[nigel_k]

P_Marlowe, on Jan 1 2010, 10:18 PM, said:

nigel_k, on Dec 31 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

How about 1♠-2♦-2♠-3♦-4NT-5♠-7♦?

Looks so simple, it cant be the solution.

You can make the seq. slightly more complicate, if you add King ask to the seq.,
to find out about the King of clubs, to make the seq. look more professional.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Heh. But if partner doesn't have ♣K and signs off then you bid 7 anyway, that wouldn't look very professional.

[Fluffy]

I think 3♣ is better than 2♠ (shows better the strenght, and more shape), but other than that nigel's sequence looks perfect to me.

[Codo]

1 ♠ 2♦
3♣ 3♦
4♦ 5♦
5♥ 6♣
7♦

Up to 3 Diamond it is natural, 3 club creates a game force.
Your system over 3 diamond will be different, but in the way I play. 4 diamond and 5 Heart asked and responder showed a nice hand with 2 KCs, thew queen of diamonds and the king of clubs.
Now you can count 2 Spade, a heart, 6 diamonds and 2 clubs tricks and you know that partner has 0-2 spades because he never raised, so you may be able to ruff them high to create some more tricks or to ruff some of his heart losers.

[whereagles]

1♠ 2♦
3♣ 3♦
4NT 5♠
5NT 6♣
7♦

3♣ = with such a strong hand, it's worth it to look for one those grands which only make in the 4-4 fit.

4NT = RKCB for diamonds, what else??

5NT = got any extras?

6♣ = yeah, I got some club values.

[mikeh]

The first 3 calls seem automatic in any 2/1 method:

1♠  2♦
2♠

N is strong enough to bid 3♣, but the club suit is not good enough to suggest as a trump suit for slam purposes: and N certainly should be thinking that slam may be in play, given the purity of the hand. In slam auctions, it is a useful rule that one should not suggest a weak 4 card trump suit. If we belong in clubs, we really need responder to bid the suit, as he will with, say, AKQxx KQxx in the minors.

S has a tough call, especially if playing, as many 2/1 players do, that 3♦ is non-forcing.

Personally, I have an easy time since for me 3♦ is forcing, but this is not universally played...I shudder to think what the choices are then....3♣ is probably 'best' but poses problems. Indeed, if 3♣ is needed for this hand, N has real issues because he can no longer rely on responder holding length as opposed to values. 2N, the other choice, makes me shudder, with xxx in hearts.

After 3♦, forcing, N has an easy choice....keycard in whatever flavour is systemically available.

For me, that would usually be 4♥, altho in one partnership it would be 4♦, a treatment I do not like at all....I'd like to bid 4♦ with 6=2=3=2 shape, and may hold xx in a side suit.

After 4♥ fetches 5♦, 2 with the Q, 5♥ seeks specific Kings and assures partner that we hold all the keys, so that he can bid 7N with, say, x KQx AKQxxxx Kx.

As it is, he owns to the club K. We can count to 12 winners for sure....and we have to have play for 13...the club Q or an extra diamond or the spades ruffing home...or some squeeze positions....I think the extra chances warrant the gamble of 7♦.

I would never reach 6N.

[ONEferBRID]

mike777 has the right idea to use kickback ( 4H!-jump) to check for keycards.
Then there is room for a specific K-ask ( 5H!) in which can find out about the ♣ K and no ♥ K.
There is no legitimate way to find out about the ♣ Q .
I'd be stopping in 6♦ .

[ I'm just not smart enough to understand methods that can go to 7D without some sort of keycard ask ] .

[Fluffy]

ONEferBRID, on Jan 4 2010, 11:43 PM, said:

Then there is room for a specific K-ask ( 5H!) in which can find out about the ♣ K and no ♥ K.
There is no legitimate way to find out about the ♣ Q .
I'd be stopping in 6♦ .

You are too pesimistic, 4♠, 1♥, 6♦ and 2♣ are 13 already. On a non club lead you wouldn't even need ♣K since a heart ruff can provide 13th trick.

I wouldn't use kicback or whatever, and I don't really need specific anything, after 5♠ answer I am asking for any extra trick, partner would actually show 2 with ♣KQx but anything else would do the trick, since I just need 1 trick to count 13, and I don't expect him to take ♠Q or 7th♦ as a trick even, and if nothing happens, you can hopefully try ♠ finese. So just blasting 7♦ over 5♠ is not unreasonable.

[barryallen]

ONEferBRID, on Jan 4 2010, 06:43 PM, said:

mike777 has the right idea to use kickback ( 4H!-jump) to check for keycards.
Then there is room for a specific K-ask ( 5H!) in which can find out about the ♣ K and no ♥ K.
There is no legitimate way to find out about the ♣ Q .
I'd be stopping in 6♦ .

[ I'm just not smart enough to understand methods that can go to 7D without some sort of keycard ask  ] .

Following on from the mike777 auction, one of my main concerns would be the ♠Q in combination with six ♦'s headed by the AKQ, more than enough to go to a grand slam alone?

Which brings me on to my next point regarding suit asking bids, does anybody incorporate them into these sequences? As the 4♥ bid would be kickback for ♦, surely then followed by 5♠ would be an asking bid in ♠ (if used), regarding the Q in this sequence (K would be first identified over 5♥)? Even if partner bids 5NT as a negative, a subsequent bid of 6♣ should get you to the grand with partner holding the KQ♣ or going on with both kings.

The other important point being that partner would now be reluctant to chance the grand with some hands, having a void in ♠.