[the hog]

"I disagree that Dbl showing 4 spades and 1♠ showing 5 is a bad system. On this hand I can double first, and when partner bids 1NT I can bid 2♥ to show a good hand."

Why complicate matters Earl - you have a sensible natural bid, - make it!


"Completely changing the subject, with both vulnerable, you hold:
S - 10 5 3
H - A 4 2
D - Q 5 2
C - A K 10 6

You open 1C, LHO bids 1H, partner bids 1S, RHO bids 2H. Isn't it nice to know partner has five spades, making a 2S bid easy?"

You make a support X; with 1S more and 1 other card less you bid 2S. Isn't it nice to know that opener has 3/4 card support making a tnt pass rather than competing to the three level or a 3S bid easy?

[Flame]

I would double to show 4 card spade, 1sp would almost always show a 5 card in my system, I believe you that this isnt the best way to bid it, but i think this is the normal way. only after 1c (1d) we play 1m to show only 4.

[luke warm]

very interesting thread... as far as the x showing or denying spades, i guess the theoretically 'best' bid depends on which hand type is more important to show

i don't know the answer to that, but it seems to me that with this particular hand you can get along nicely without the x denying spades (if you didn't have them), because of your strength... 2H is available to force

i have to admit i'd x here, because i'm one of the dying breed that likes this to be "regular neg double OR game force somewhere"... yeah, the negative free bid double... even though 1S is forcing, even playing neg free bids, it seems important to show whether you have 4 or 5 spades

all this could be avoided with 12-14 nt ...
1nt (2h) 2nt (p) 3c (p) 3h (p) 3nt (p) 4nt ... now i expect south will bid 6nt with a max and 6 controls

the auction's even nicer if west doesn't bid 2H

[the hog]

Luke, a very useful side effect of playing what a few have suggested viz
X = 4+S and 1S is a -ve double with 0-3 S is that you remove the 1S bid from the opponents.
I wonder how many have discussed this sequence -

(1D) 1H (1S) X
Where 1S shows 0-3S. What is X here? S suit or some sort of support X? You can't have it both ways.

A corollory of this style is to play the following
1C (x) 1D = trf to H, 1H = trf to S, 1S = trf to C, 2C = trf to D
Again this has the benefit of taking the opponents bids from them.

[luke warm]

yes, i like that... i was just showing how i'd bid it (assuming no 1nt opening)