[TimG]

eyhung, on Dec 16 2009, 04:34 AM, said:

This seems slightly unintuitive given awm's argument, so I'd appreciate it if someone else could double-check my results. If they hold, the only explanation I have for this discrepancy is that RHO's club length has far more variance. With long clubs in the overcaller's hand, the results are therefore weighed towards the short club openings, which significantly and adversely impacts partner's spade length. But when you are long in hearts, RHO's minimum is always 5, and usually in the 5-7 range,

Taken to an extreme, let's say RHO is playing a system where 1H promises 9 hearts. Now, with 4-4 in the majors, you know partner has exactly 0 hearts so he is longer in spades than if you were 4-2 in the majors.

Perhaps saying the same thing you are, but when opener's club length is minimum (3) he must have 2-4 spades. When opener's heart length is minimum (5) he can still have 0-4 spades. So, minimum club length forces some spades into opener's hand; minimum heart length only increases the probability of increased spade length.

[gnasher]

How about this explanation:

The more hearts I have, the more likely it is that RHO has exactly five hearts. If RHO has only five hearts, he won't have five spades.

[DWM]

Isn't there a lot more to overcalling a 4 card major than just finding a fit with P. Doesn't it also have the advantage of squeezing the bidding space, making it more difficult for oposition to find NT part scores/games, helping P find a good lead etc. Certainly at the one level I am not convinced that finding a fit is a top priority.

[hanp]

Maybe I have a selective memory but the few times that I overcalled on 4-card suits this year we obtained good results. Each time I had a very good suit and about 10-14 HCP, and I had some 4432 distribution. I don't remember why I use these requirements but this is more or less how cherdanno taught me and I'm happy with this style.

I have no problem overcalling vulnerable at IMPs as long as my suit is very good (think AKJx). Partner being a passed hand is a plus.

[keylime]

Larry and I overcall 4 card majors relatively frequently as long as they are around the area of KJ9x or better. However I tend to overcall more than he does.

[y66]

I enjoyed reading that old thread posted by gwnn. Nice summary there by joshs:

Quote

A few comments on 4 card overcalls. In general the following factors are relevent:
a. Strength of the suit
b. Overall Strength (since a 5'th card is worth at least 1 trick, and often 2 tricks, you need that much values to make up for it.
c. Length in the opps suit. 4 card overcalls are most effective holding 4 cards in RHO suit (often can ruff that suit in summy if you catch a fit)
d. Nature of side cards. Playing in a 4-3 fit you often do not have much time to develop side tricks, so your side cards should be mostly ace's and kings. Side Quacks are a negative feature.
e. Holding in RHO's suit Holding Axxx or xxxx is ideal. Holding Quacks in RHO's suit are dreadful since they (usually) have defensive values and (usually) not offensive values.
f. Colors. In general, you always want to bid more (especially at mps) at W/W and be most conservative at R/R. When the opps are vul, just passively passing can get you 100 or 200 defending their contract.

But keep in mind, just because you make a mistake and bid 1 to many (say competing to 2 over 2 when you should have defended) doesn't mean that the opps might not occasionally bail you out and give you a bigger score. Busy bidding at low levels works more often than it should on a double dummy basis.