[gwnn]

I bid a hand like a perfect braindead zombie, but there was an interesting question that was raised.

the bidding started:

1♦-p-1♥-2♣
p-p-2♠-p
3♣-p-3♦-p
3♠

what's going on? who has what?

what was 3♣?
what was 3♠? i.e. how many spades

[suokko]

responder is 4-5 majors and ♦ tolerance. Opener has something like 3-1-5-4 hand with 4 small clubs.

3♣=no major fit or stopper or additional ♦ length.
3♠=3 card preference looking for right game.

[gwnn]

you don't need to hide your answer Pauli, I'm looking for opinions, I am not some a/e player putting in a quiz for the b/i.

edit: to include something useful in this post, I would just like to mention that you're playing expert standard with partner so you can be sure that 2♠ is forcing for at least one round.

[Jlall]

Opener is going crazy after passing 2C. This could mean 1 of two things:

A) His hand has been significantly upgraded by the 2S bid OR
He had club length and that's why he passed 2C with a good hand.

After the 3S bid I think hand A is likely, perhaps he has KJxx --- AKxxx KJxx and is now trying for slam after 2S.

[jdonn]

My first instinct was also 4054. Perhaps some 4144 16 or 17 count is possible as well.

[suokko]

Jlall, on Dec 9 2009, 03:27 AM, said:

Opener is going crazy after passing 2C. This could mean 1 of two things:

A) His hand has been significantly upgraded by the 2S bid OR
He had club length and that's why he passed 2C with a good hand.

After the 3S bid I think hand A is likely, perhaps he has KJxx --- AKxxx KJxx and is now trying for slam after 2S.

How forcing is responders 2♠? It can be anything. But responder reverse is often threated as forcing to game.

Another option is to play double as strong hand and any natural bid as NF.

[pooltuna]

gwnn, on Dec 8 2009, 08:02 PM, said:

I bid a hand like a perfect braindead zombie, but there was an interesting question that was raised.

the bidding started:

1♦-p-1♥-2♣
p-p-2♠-p
3♣-p-3♦-p
3♠

what's going on? who has what?

what was 3♣?
what was 3♠? i.e. how many spades

3♣ was asking for a ♣stopper and 3♠ was an offer to play a 4-3 fit

[nigel_k]

I wouldn't say that opener is going crazy or must have a great hand. Maybe they just want to find the best game. I could understand someone bidding this way on any of the following:

KQx xx AKQxx xxx
Qxx xx AKJx Axxx
Qxx x AKJxx Axxx

With Justin's example I would bid 4S instead of 3S on the last turn. I wouldn't expect partner to work out I have four card support unless I make it very clear.

[kgr]

suokko, on Dec 9 2009, 03:38 AM, said:

....
How forcing is responders 2♠? It can be anything. But responder reverse is often threated as forcing to game.

Another option is to play double as strong hand and any natural bid as NF.
...

Good question; I think still GF?

[jdonn]

I am not at all convinced by the hands without a fit. Many of them with 5 good diamonds can just rebid those, having already not bid 2♦ over 2♣. If you have an anti-positional club stopper that's too bad, but hands with clubs stopped can always just bid notrump.

I think the only hand where a vague cuebid is needed is 3244 with no club stopper, or maybe 3253 with no club stopper and very bad diamonds. In those unlikely cases you can just preference back to hearts and probably do fine. There is a very good chance, at the point 2♠ is bid, that responder has 6 hearts anyway. That is also why it's very good to be able to show a big spade fit and a maximum in context, since such a hand will invariably have short hearts so partner will need to be able to judge how will his honors fit with his long hearts opposite.

[Phil]

Clearly opener has four spades and a good hand.

3♣ is interesting. I'm inclined Opener has a trap of 2♣ along with 4♠, but this could mean opener is 4=1=4=4 as well. I'm not as inclined to think it needs to be as good of a hand as others are suggesting: Axxx, x, Axxx, AQTx feels like enough - I think we can raise spades on less; like a 12 count 4=2=4=3 for instance.

4=2=4=3 18 simply does something over 2♣, don't you think?

[Phil]

kgr, on Dec 9 2009, 03:57 AM, said:

suokko, on Dec 9 2009, 03:38 AM, said:

....
How forcing is responders 2♠? It can be anything. But responder reverse is often threated as forcing to game.

Another option is to play double as strong hand and any natural bid as NF.
...

Good question; I think still GF?

Reverses by responder are GF.