[jillybean]

6403 MP, 1st Seat, Vulnerable

What does the minimum hand you'll hold and open 1♠ look like ?

[helene_t]

In terms of HCPs the minimum is 9 for me, I think AJ9xxx-Axxx-(-)-xxx.

[mike777]

AT9xxx....ATxx....void......xxx

[P_Marlowe]

10HCP, call it rule of 20.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hanp]

Do I sound like mikeh when I say that aces are undervalued in the traditional point count? With a lot of distribution this is especially true, AJ10xxx Axxx - xxx is a better hand than, QJxxxx KQxx - QJx. I would definitely open that 9-count.

[gwnn]

agree w. mike777

[Jlall]

hanp, on Nov 27 2009, 05:41 AM, said:

Do I sound like mikeh when I say that aces are undervalued in the traditional point count? With a lot of distribution this is especially true, AJ10xxx Axxx - xxx is a better hand than, QJxxxx KQxx - QJx. I would definitely open that 9-count.

hmm, I would rather have the second suit. I agree with your general point but a hand with the same shape and 2 points less being better than the other hand with 2 points more is impossible to me (maybe not if you give one hand much better spots, but that defeats the point).

[rhm]

Jlall, on Nov 27 2009, 08:13 AM, said:

hanp, on Nov 27 2009, 05:41 AM, said:

Do I sound like mikeh when I say that aces are undervalued in the traditional point count? With a lot of distribution this is especially true, AJ10xxx Axxx - xxx is a better hand than, QJxxxx KQxx - QJx. I would definitely open that 9-count.

hmm, I would rather have the second suit. I agree with your general point but a hand with the same shape and 2 points less being better than the other hand with 2 points more is impossible to me (maybe not if you give one hand much better spots, but that defeats the point).

The Rubens Kaplan evaluator values the first hand 13.7 and the second 11.7.
I would not go as far as that, though this evaluator is good for suit contracts, but I would certainly prefer to hold the first hand and consider it stronger.

Rainer Herrmann

[helene_t]

Disagree with Justin

But I think the K-R evaluator exaggerates.

[Phil]

mike777, on Nov 26 2009, 07:35 PM, said:

AT9xxx....ATxx....void......xxx

28 Zars! Not even a minimum for certain moderators...

[jillybean]

I'd open the both the hands posted, lets raise the bar a little.
AKxxxx,Qxxx,void,xxx

[kenrexford]

6-4 is a terrible rebid problem, IMO. Sure, you have an easy rebid, in that you have hearts, but partners have problems where the auction is 1♠-P-1NY-P-2♥. Recognition of this problem means that the rebid is not partnership-easy.

If I had a technique to handle this problem better, then opening garbage 6-4's seems easier. (Plug -- 2♥ rebid shows sound to extras; 2♦ rebid shows weak majors or spades and diamonds; improved with 2♦ opening 5♠/4-5♦ low opening so that 2♦ after 1♠ if diamonds+spades is stronger.)

Because of this, a light 1♠ opening with 6-4 is not that appealing to me any more. I think I'd much rather have 6-3-0-4, 6-3-4-0, 6-0-4-3, or 6-0-3-4.

Still undecided though. I by force of momentum keep opening these 6-4-0-3 hand light, but I like it less and less as the years go by, if tool-less.

[hanp]

If partner has 6-9 HCP, 3 spades and no shortness and we play in spades then the 9-count takes 8.61 tricks on average and the 11-count takes 8.76 tricks on average.

If partner has the same shape but 10-11 HCP then the 9-count takes 9.5 tricks on average and the 11-count takes 9.65 tricks on average.

If partner has 12-14 HCP, 4 spades and no shortness then the 9-count takes 10.53 tricks on average and the 11-count takes 10.66 tricks on average.

11-count beats 9-count, shame.

[gwnn]

jillybean, on Nov 27 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

AKxxxx,Qxxx,void,xxx

I open it. But I like this hand better than the mike777 hand.

[Codo]

I pass your example hand.
I need a borderline for an opening and this hand is below the line.
And I have spades, so they need quite a lot bidding to make me quiet second round.

[mike777]

jillybean, on Nov 27 2009, 11:21 AM, said:

I'd open the both the hands posted, lets raise the bar a little.
AKxxxx,Qxxx,void,xxx

9pt hands:

x....xx.......AJTxx.....AT9xx

really good dist, and honor location 5-5 6-4 or better, all your points in your long suits, good suit quality, holding a void, that sort of thing.



Sure I would opened that one, but of course I let partner know I would ahead of time. At our level I do think it is very important to come to some general partnership agreement on what the heck an opening bid shows. IF partner prefers a more sound opening style, no problem.


In any event I think we beg/int players need to practice our declarer play and defense more than worry about bidding. But it is alot of fun to discuss.

[jillybean]

Here's another one, do you open 2nd seat, V vs. NV

KJT985, Q9853, A8, void

[mike777]

jillybean, on Dec 5 2009, 12:01 AM, said:

Here's another one, do you open 2nd seat, V vs. NV

KJT985, Q9853, A8, void

I find this one really borderline...


First off lets assume we open ten often.....


we do not have 2.5 Quick tricks...not good.

We do not have two aces....negative....


we do have an easy rebid...positive....

we have 11 cards in our long suits ....positive.....


bottom line if you choose to pass..npp


OTOH if pard knows we open light often....npp/


I would vote PASS, but I though it was close....if we open light in second seat.

[gwnn]

jillybean, on Dec 5 2009, 05:01 AM, said:

Here's another one, do you open 2nd seat, V vs. NV

KJT985, Q9853, A8, void

1♠, nice and easy.

[andy_h]

gwnn, on Dec 5 2009, 10:53 PM, said:

jillybean, on Dec 5 2009, 05:01 AM, said:

Here's another one, do you open 2nd seat, V vs. NV

KJT985, Q9853, A8, void

1♠, nice and easy.

Yeap, having the majors is always a big positive and here we have 6-5.