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another splinter?

Poll: 3S/4H? (22 member(s) have cast votes)

3S/4H?

  1. 3S: splinter with slem-interest (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 4H (22 votes [100.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 100.00%

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#21 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-November-25, 16:51

jdonn, on Nov 25 2009, 04:23 PM, said:

To the point about what slam needs to be good, I agree. But let's at least note that many combinations of those cards, and most actual hands that have 3 of those cards, make responder too good for a constructive raise.

To your point about bidding 3NT, I don't play 3NT that way. I don't think anyone here but you plays 3NT that way. And the ability to do that is not a discussion I'm very interested in having. You did use that key word "if". Not to mention I am far from convinced responder won't push hard on slightly worse hands, although I shudder at the thought of your post that tries to convince me that won't happen.

To point about what could be lost, lots! In approximate order of likelihood, here is just what I can think of off my head:
- On the second/third/fourth round of trumps in 4 LHO may have discards to make. It's much much easier when he knows our side suit than when he doesn't know it or doesn't even know we have one. Imagine he may cling faithfully to some perceived spade stopper if we don't tell him our hand!
- LHO might have been about to lead a club from the queen and now won't.
- LHO might have clubs locked up and now know to lead a trump against 4.
There are also more obscure ways to lose. We might show a club fit but reach a heart slam and LHO could lead from club length with either the ace of clubs or king of hearts, paving the way to a ruff. Things like that.

And how about the next time you play these opponents and bid 1 2 4. If they are astute they can eliminate this approximate shape and strength of hand from your possible holdings and have an easier time defending. And that is a big deal since it applies to you holding any suit suit, not just clubs.

So yes, there is lots of risk here.

The easy solution to avoiding partner pushing on "those hands" is that partner also has another alternative -- a raise. Thus, partner could simply raise 3 to 4 with some hand that looks really nice but that does not fit the pure description of the super-accept.

I'll accept that there are risks involved. But, aren't those risks always present whenever you make a game try other than random or blast?

I suppose you could use some ambiguous slam try to get the same point across.

Suppose 1-P-2. 2NT (one step up) could operate as a random game try. Responder could then bid 3 if he has a hand where some slam move would be accepted. Opener could then bid 3, 3, or 3 (clubs shown by bidding the agreed major) if he had a side suit worthy of a slam consideration. Responder could then super-accept with a 3NT call (or a relay for that matter) to accept the side suit. The whole thing is easier after hearts are raised.

Thus, consider the actual hand and partner's hypo hands that I proposed. Opener bids 2 as a random GT. Responder bids 2NT to announce that he would super-accept something. Opener bids 3 to see if that is where. responder bids 3 to say yes. And then we cuebid.

The disclosure would then be minimal -- Opener has game interest, then Responder has slam interest (if he does), then Opener if he agrees and only then indicates a location for interest.

Or, you could even go further. 2M+1 is a random GT. 2M+2 announces a super-accept somewhere, if Opener cares. 2M+3 indicates interest and asks where. 2M+4/5/6 indicates where. 2M+answer+1 agrees that suit and asks questions.

So...

1-2
2(random GT or better)-2NT(accepts, but I could super-accept somewhere, if you care)
3(I do. Where?)-3(in clubs)
3(tell me more, clubs looks good)-and so on.
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-P.J. Painter.
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#22 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-November-25, 17:30

kenrexford, on Nov 25 2009, 05:51 PM, said:

I'll accept that there are risks involved. But, aren't those risks always present whenever you make a game try other than random or blast?

Yes, that's why experts simply blast game more and more often than they have in the past and make fewer and fewer game tries.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#23 User is offline   paca1987 

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Posted 2009-November-25, 18:15

4 seems preety normal to me.
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