[kgr]

gwnn, on Nov 23 2009, 12:54 AM, said:

so why didnt he bid this hand like that? i'm sure he had a very good reason. it just looks like nobody on these forums knows your system quite well enough (except you).

Not strong enough if no fit? Or he forgot that he could reverse? (I think a combination of both)

BTW: I appreciate that you all try to understand our system and answer the question

[mike777]

kgr, on Nov 22 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

<!-- NORTHSOUTH begin --><table border=1> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> South </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table border='1'> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> x </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> AKxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> Axxxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> xx </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> KQx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> x </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> Kxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> AKT9x </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- NORTHSOUTH end -->
1♣-1♦!
1NT-2NT!
3♣!-3♥
3♠-5♦
All pass
 
1♦=xfer ♥
2NT=xfer ♦ (and 4c♥)
3♣=max for ♦
What was the biggest reason for missing 6♦?

I really dislike 1nt, number one, dislike 5d, number two.
btw you did not alert how strong your 2nt! bid is but I would assume inv or game force.



Responder hand is a tough one for me. My best try would be:


1c=1h(Walsh style)
2c=3d(invitational, often some sort of 5-5 or 4-6 hand type, with other invitational type hands I might be stuck with some offshape 2nt rebid).(2d would be art and gf, for me)
now 4d or 4h(rkc for d, not hearts)=etc...

[Jlall]

kgr, on Nov 22 2009, 05:52 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 23 2009, 12:46 AM, said:

kgr, on Nov 22 2009, 05:44 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 23 2009, 12:37 AM, said:

If partner had something like Jx KQxxx AQxxx x couldn't be bid this way?

With a GF 55 he would rebid 3♦.

ok, so partner is like 4-6 GF? Make that Jx KQxx AQxxxx x then, same concept.

Then he would have bid reverse by starting with 1♠ (xfer ♦) and rebid 2♦ (xfer ♥)

So partner is not 5-4, or 5-5. Partner is also not 4-6 GF.

So it seems like partner must be invitational when he bids 2N showing diamonds and hearts (else he would start with 1S first)? Then when you show that you like diamonds, he can GF.

That being said, it seems obvious that when he bids 3H he is still looking for the best game, and when you bid 3S he is no longer interested in 3N (he has short clubs) so he bids 5D. It does not seem possible in your system for partner to be trying for slam since he would start with 1S then show hearts with a GF hand with 4H and longer diamonds, and he would bid 3D over 1N with 5-5 GF.

Is this accurate? FWIW if you want better answers to your problems when you give an artificial system it would help if you listed everything you knew about the auction so we wouldn't have to guess.

If everything I said is right, 5D is an extremely poor bid. Partner has already limited his hand by not starting with 1S first, and he has a super max for that limit! He surely should try for slam in this context. I mean slam is great opposite as little as Axx xx Kxxx Axxx and thats an 11 count.

[kgr]

Jlall, on Nov 23 2009, 01:09 AM, said:

kgr, on Nov 22 2009, 05:52 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 23 2009, 12:46 AM, said:

kgr, on Nov 22 2009, 05:44 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 23 2009, 12:37 AM, said:

If partner had something like Jx KQxxx AQxxx x couldn't be bid this way?

With a GF 55 he would rebid 3♦.

ok, so partner is like 4-6 GF? Make that Jx KQxx AQxxxx x then, same concept.

Then he would have bid reverse by starting with 1♠ (xfer ♦) and rebid 2♦ (xfer ♥)

So partner is not 5-4, or 5-5. Partner is also not 4-6 GF.

So it seems like partner must be invitational when he bids 2N showing diamonds and hearts (else he would start with 1S first)? Then when you show that you like diamonds, he can GF.

That being said, it seems obvious that when he bids 3H he is still looking for the best game, and when you bid 3S he is no longer interested in 3N (he has short clubs) so he bids 5D. It does not seem possible in your system for partner to be trying for slam since he would start with 1S then show hearts with a GF hand with 4H and longer diamonds, and he would bid 3D over 1N with 5-5 GF.

Is this accurate? FWIW if you want better answers to your problems when you give an artificial system it would help if you listed everything you knew about the auction so we wouldn't have to guess.

If everything I said is right, 5D is an extremely poor bid. Partner has already limited his hand by not starting with 1S first, and he has a super max for that limit! He surely should try for slam in this context. I mean slam is great opposite as little as Axx xx Kxxx Axxx and thats an 11 count.

That is right.
4♦ would have been RKC for ♦ now (♦-fit confirmed by 3♣). That is your choice then iso 5♦
..or 6♦?

[Jlall]

How about just cuebidding 4S and leaving the ball in partner's court? He now knows you have at most about 11 points, you have no club control, and you have controls in both majors, and you are 4-6, and you are still making a slam move opposite a 12-14 type hand. Seems like he knows everything then and can make an intelligent decision.

[kgr]

Tx
..4S-4NT-5H-6D

[gwnn]

I must be missing something but looks like jlall and kgr both agreed that responder was planning to invite opposite the 12-14 advertised but when he heard that the 12-14 hand is a good max, he is gonna try for slam? I remember kenrexford being loled at for suggesting that 1NT-2c, 2d-2N opener's 3♦ was a slam try (maybe I don't remember right?).

edit:

http://cuebiddingatbridge.blogspot.com/200...o-splinter.html

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Nov 22 2009, 05:23 PM, said:

Why is it better to lie about my spade length than to lie about my club length?

Because it's lower, i.e. I can still reach 1NT if partner bids it. But it's not like I'm happy to do it, everything stinks IMO.

[Jlall]

gwnn, on Nov 22 2009, 07:17 PM, said:

I must be missing something but looks like jlall and kgr both agreed that responder was planning to invite opposite the 12-14 advertised but when he heard that the 12-14 hand is a good max, he is gonna try for slam? I remember kenrexford being loled at for suggesting that 1NT-2c, 2d-2N opener's 3♦ was a slam try (maybe I don't remember right?).

edit:

http://cuebiddingatbridge.blogspot.com/200...o-splinter.html

I would never invite with this hand opposite a 12-14 NT, but that doesn't mean I would game force with it immediately over a 1C opener. Sometimes partner opens 1C and has less points and more shape and the hand is a misfit.

It is entirely reasonable that some hands are not worth a GF after a 1C opener, but then when they learn they have a good fit they become worth a slam try even when partner shows minimal HCP

The auction that I remember LOLing at kenrexford about was:

1N 2C
2H 3H
4D

Where 4D is an empathetic splinter. That is a much different auction because it is the balanced hand making a slam try opposite an invite, where the person who invited has already evaluated his hand as invitational in context of having a fit.

[Jlall]

Put another way its like

1C p ?

WELLL I have 11, can't really GF it yet... 1D

1N p ?

Partner doesn't have 4S or 3H. He always has 3 diamonds, and could have 4. Additionally he has 12-14 now, so I know he didn't open light based on a black 2 suiter or club 1 suiter with like 10 HCP. Now I'm going to GF. I'm not really sure what the best game is though... 2N showing D

3C p ? Wow! Partner likes his hand for diamonds! He likely has 4 diamonds, which is amazing in combination with a doubleton heart when I am 4-6. But he might still just have 3 diamonds, and he might have slow black cards ... 3H, see whats up

3S p ? Wow! Partner didn't want to bid 3N. He is interested in playing 5D so his hand is not slow, he's probably got a prime hand with only 1 stopper in clubs, or maybe he just has nothing in clubs in all. My hand just keeps getting better and better. Axx xx Kxxx Axxx is a slam, that is consistent with partner's bidding. Should I drive to slam? Nah, better not, partner might have bid 3S based on no club control with say, AKx Qx KQx xxxxx. I will try for slam with 4S pinpointing my lack of club control. As a bonus, because of my failure to GF to begin with, partner can NEVER play me for more than I have. In fact he might well work out my entire hand!... 4S