[cnszsun]

Scoring: IMP

1♥-2♣-dbl-4♣
??

---

BTW, what would it show if you double?

[jdonn]

Uh, what?? 4♠!

lol posted this then realized I replied "uh what?" to multiple posts without realizing it tonight!

[Jlall]

4S. If you doubled it would show a strong hand and be takeout oriented.

[the hog]

4S.

[pooltuna]

cnszsun, on Nov 22 2009, 04:24 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

1♥-2♣-dbl-4♣
??

---

BTW, what would it show if you double?

a desire to defend?

[gwnn]

This wouldn't be a penalty double.

compare to

http://forums.bridge...showtopic=33710

Anyway double is a bad bid, you have a nice hand with a fit for partner so bid game in partner's suit, 4♠.

[pooltuna]

gwnn, on Nov 22 2009, 11:38 AM, said:

Anyway double is a bad bid, you have a nice hand with a fit for partner so bid game in partner's suit, 4♠.

agreed I would call 4♠ like everyone else but was trying to answer the OP's question

[paca1987]

4♠. No ideas about other biddings

[Phil]

4♠. Nearly perfect. I don't think its an overbid and if pard makes a move forward I am not ashamed to show him the hand afterward.

[neilkaz]

Phil, on Nov 22 2009, 02:05 PM, said:

4♠. Nearly perfect. I don't think its an overbid and if pard makes a move forward I am not ashamed to show him the hand afterward.

We agree.

[goodwintr]

So the double of four clubs is for takeout? Hmmm: I have bid hearts, partner has shown spades, and the opponents are bidding clubs. So the double of four clubs must be takeout for one suit, diamonds?

[Jlall]

goodwintr, on Nov 22 2009, 09:41 PM, said:

So the double of four clubs is for takeout? Hmmm: I have bid hearts, partner has shown spades, and the opponents are bidding clubs. So the double of four clubs must be takeout for one suit, diamonds?

What does this mean? You can still play in diamonds, hearts, spades, or defend. Partner can still have 4 spades, or 5 spades. You can still have 5 hearts or 6 hearts. Partner might have only 1 or 2. You could still belong in a 5-2 major suit fit. You could have 3 diamonds or 4 diamonds or 5 diamonds. Partner could still have the same. Maybe you don't have a great fit and can't make any game and partner will pass with a balanced hand and you get an ok sized number when you can't make anything.

There is still an incredible range of strengths/shapes/strains left, I don't see how you can not play X as takeout.

[goodwintr]

Maybe we are just using different lexicons. In the one on my shelf, "takeout" means you expect partner to bid something, usually an unbid suit. "Penalty" means you expect him to pass unless he has a good reason to do something else. The double you are describing, Jlall, just means "do something intelligent": you really don't care whether he bids something or passes. That double is neither "takeout" nor "penalty," but something in between. It used to be called "cooperative," but terms like "action" and "card-showing" seem to have taken over.

I'm not arguing against the concept, just about the terminology. It seems clear to me that the double in question means just about what you said it does.

TLG

[gnasher]

A typical "takeout" double would be 3541, and could be not far from a minimum opening. A typical "action" or "card-showing" double would be 2542 or 3532, and would have more in high cards.