[Trinidad]

Scoring: IMP

---

The auction at the table:

West North East South
      -      -      -    Pass
  1♥   Pass   2♦   Pass
  2♥   Pass   2♠   Pass
  3♠   Pass   4♣   Dbl
Pass Pass   4♦   Pass
  4♥   Pass   4♠   Pass
Pass Pass

Context: EW are playing 2/1 GF except when the suit is rebid. They do not play anything like serious/frivolous 3NT (3NT instead of 4♣ would have been to play, indicating that the 2♠ bid would have been "invented".)

Edit: About style: EW open most 11 point hands. Fast arrival applies. EW do not play picture jumps.

Rik

[Jlall]

Hi,

As soon as west raises spades the east hand becomes a slam force opposite 1+Q imo. Complete garbage hands like Qxxx KQJxx xx Kx and xxxx AKxxx xx Kx (likely not an opening bid for most) and QJxx AJxxx Qx Qx make slam good. These hands will never cooperate in going above the game level, because they sucks. This is debatable though, maybe it is only worth a drive to the 5 level (requiring some sign of life from partner so he doesn't have the worst possible hands). Also may matter if you play a jump to 4S over 2S as fast arrival or a picture bid (good majors, no minor suit control), because if you play fast arrival that def makes east worth a slam force since partner won't have the worst possible hands.

That being said, even if you disagree with that evaluation, partner passed the X of 4C! He has now cooperated with you!! So he no longer has a garbage hand and east is CERTAINLY a slam force.

But east is still not sure....... AND HIS PARTNER GIVES HIM ANOTHER CUEBID!!!!!!!!!

ROFLCOPTER!!!!!!!!!!!

Now it's just a question of whether you have a grand or not. Signing off in 4S is amazingly bad after 2 moves from partner. No idea what game east was playing.

As far as west's bidding, if anything it was aggressive. But he had a good source of tricks and some spade honors, so I'd say his bidding was perfect. How can he be expected to do MORE than he did?

[jdonn]

Uh.... what? Definitely east 100%.

[Phil]

East has all these cover cards and signs off? Sheesh...

[mich-b]

What exactly made East sign-off? What was he worried about?
West is 100% blameless.

[andy_h]

Hmm downgrading AKAKA and even after partner made a bit of a cooperation..

[ONEferBRID]

Trinidad, on Nov 22 2009, 02:35 AM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP

♠ QT86 ♥ AKQ85 ♦ 4 ♣ 952 ♠ AK74 ♥ T ♦ AK876 ♣ A74

This auction is for the Hog... which shows my "variant" for a 1H-2m! auction
where Opener shows a minimum 4s/5h hand not worthy of a strong Reverse:

1H   2D!
2H! 2S!
3D! 3S ( sets trump, but knows the grand is unlikely )
4H ( cue ) 4NT ( to make sure Ht cue is the Ace )
5D ( 1 key ) 5H ( sQ-ask; really need this card too )
6H ( sQ + hK) 6S
________________________________________________

2H! = minimum opener w or w/o 4s
2S! = asks which
3D! = 4s/5+h w/Diam shortness
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If Opener had bid 2NT! over 2S!, it would show a minimum Opener w/o 4s.

[kenrexford]

Two points.

First, Responder is at fault. 100%.

Second, adopt serious 3NT. If you are capable of haviong a sequence where a Responder with a primed-out 18-HCP, shapely, 4-control, both suits topped by AK, player hand has doubt at this point, he really needs a way to show serious interest, so his partner can rescue him if nothing else.

[Trinidad]

This was just an idiot check. I was West on this hand and I do make my share of mistakes. I have a very nice partner, but on this board he got relatively miffed, about my bidding. I didn't think I did anything wrong on this auction, so we seem to have a disagreement here.

At the end of the day my conclusion was that either:

o I had a wire lose in my brain and a huge blind spot somewhere.
o I don't understand what a reverse by responder shows after a 2/1 response.
o My partner had a wire lose in his brain and a huge blind spot somewhere.
o My partner doesn't understand what a reverse by responder shows after a 2/1 response.

Your responses eliminated 2 of the possibilities. So al that is left to do is figure out which of the remaining 2 options applied.

When it comes to the auction 1♥-2♦; 2♥-2♠, my understanding is that the 2♠ bid shows the same as it does in SAYC or other systems where a 2/1 is forcing for (at least) one round: A game forcing hand with 4 spades and longer diamonds. The difference is that in 2/1 GF, the 2♦ bid was already (almost) GF, whereas in other systems 2♦ wasn't forcing to game yet, but 2♠ made the auction GF (and this may have some consequences for the meaning of 2♥).

Rik

[Trinidad]

kenrexford, on Nov 22 2009, 03:18 PM, said:

Two points.

First, Responder is at fault.  100%.

Second, adopt serious 3NT.  If you are capable of haviong a sequence where a Responder with a primed-out 18-HCP, shapely, 4-control, both suits topped by AK, player hand has doubt at this point, he really needs a way to show serious interest, so his partner can rescue him if nothing else.

Ken,

Thanks for the input. With another partner, I play a cuebidding style where it is easy to separate serious hands from frivolous hands.

But I think that with this partner, I would rather opt for less conventions than for more...

Rik

[jdonn]

kenrexford, on Nov 22 2009, 09:18 AM, said:

Two points.

First, Responder is at fault. 100%.

Second, adopt serious 3NT. If you are capable of haviong a sequence where a Responder with a primed-out 18-HCP, shapely, 4-control, both suits topped by AK, player hand has doubt at this point, he really needs a way to show serious interest, so his partner can rescue him if nothing else.

East signed off on this hand, and you use that as evidence that there is a system problem??

[gwnn]

Rik can't it be that both 3 and 4 apply? Only one of them does not seem to suffice in explaining east's criminal bidding.

[neilkaz]

West passed up two chances to sign off during the cuebidding sequence. Therefore with all those controls, it looks to me like East holds a monster and absolutely must make a try.

100% blame to East.

[movingon]

Is it possible that East is not sure that west has 4 spades? West could have 6 hearts, and 3 spades on the bidding. I do not understand why West does not tell west about his 4 spades. I think west is at fault here.

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on Nov 22 2009, 02:13 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Nov 22 2009, 09:18 AM, said:

Two points.

First, Responder is at fault.  100%.

Second, adopt serious 3NT.  If you are capable of haviong a sequence where a Responder with a primed-out 18-HCP, shapely, 4-control, both suits topped by AK, player hand has doubt at this point, he really needs a way to show serious interest, so his partner can rescue him if nothing else.

East signed off on this hand, and you use that as evidence that there is a system problem??

Well, not exactly. If you notice, I suggested Serious 3NT so that West could save East, from being a wuss. West at least has a chance of East bids Serious 3NT. (I was joking...)

[kenrexford]

movingon, on Nov 22 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

Is it possible that East is not sure that west has 4 spades? West could have 6 hearts, and 3 spades on the bidding. I do not understand why West does not tell west about his 4 spades. I think west is at fault here.

Huh? The raise shows a fit.