An unheard alert
#1
Posted 2009-November-21, 02:04
With E/W vulnerable, West opened 1NT with ♠AJx, ♥Qxx, ♦AT8x, ♣KQT. North bid 2♣, which was allegedly alerted by South, in a very soft voice and with no use of a Stop card. East, after a break in tempo, in which he was waiting to hear an alert, Passed with ♠xx, ♥AJx, ♦J9, ♣A9xxxx. South now bid 2♦ (the partnership were playing Hamilton with the 2♣ showing a single-suited hand). North and West are very experienced players, East marginally less experienced and South is a relative novice. After South's 2♦ bid, West asked North the meaning of that bid, and received the answer that South was required to make that bid so that North could Pass or correct. West then asked South whether the the 2♣ bid was natural and was told "No". No other explanation was given, and none was sought. West now doubled the 2♦ bid and North called the Director, raising the possibility that West's Double could have taken into account East's break in tempo after the 2♣ bid. The Director let the double stand. North passed and East now bid 3NT. Contract making. The Director let the result stand, advised South of the necessity to ensure that the opponents hear the Alert, and cautioned West about letting a break in tempo influence his bidding. Subsequently the Director allocated a Procedural Penalty against West for the Double. The Director reasoned that if West did not Double East would NOT stop short of game, probably now bidding 3♦.
Were the Director's actions appropriate in the circumstances detailed above?
#2
Posted 2009-November-21, 04:48
#3
Posted 2009-November-21, 07:31
If there had been no MI, E/W would presumably have bid and made 3NT: in fact they bid and made 3NT. No damage from MI.
There was UI from the BIT, and West's double might have been affected. Was pass an LA? Was double suggested over pass by the BIT? Was there damage?
Answering the last first, without the double, E/W would presumably have bid and made 3NT: in fact they bid and made 3NT. No damage from UI. No need to consider LAs.
So result stands.
Then the TD gave a PP for the double. There is no reason for this. PPs are given in UI positions to strong, experienced players who clearly use UI to make totally unacceptable calls in unambiguous positions. The double of 2♦ does not meet this standard so the PP was inappropriate.
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#4
Posted 2009-November-21, 11:23
#5
Posted 2009-November-21, 12:06
ACBL Alert Procedures said:
So an alert that is spoken only has not been given correctly.
ACBL Alert Procedures said:
This clarifies who is responsible for it being clear an alert has been made.
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#6
Posted 2009-November-21, 12:08
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#7
Posted 2009-November-21, 12:26
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#8
Posted 2009-November-21, 12:31
Using spoken bidding, the partner of the player making an Alertable call says "Alert."
Using bidding boxes, an Alert is made by tapping an Alert card on the table or by tapping the Alert strip on the side of the bid box. In addition, the Alerter must say "Alert."
Using screens, ALL Alerts are immediate - there are no delayed Alerts. All Announcements become Alerts."
I don't see anywhere where it says "mandatory". Nor do I see anywhere where there is a penalty recommended for not using the box when boxes are available.
#9
Posted 2009-November-21, 13:24
Introduction to the Laws said:
As regulations are an extension of the laws, this applies just as much to regulations as to the laws themselves. So using (or tapping) the Alert card or strip is correct procedure*, failure to do so is not correct procedure, but the law does not suggest a PP for violations. Note that the law does not prohibit a PP either, so whether to issue one is left — as it should be IMO — to the discretion of the TD.
*If that's not enough to make it mandatory, there's
Law 74A3 said:
Law 72B1 said:
Now, if you can point to an ACBL regulation or interpretation that says that use of the alert card or strip is optional (as they have done wrt the Stop Card) that would be different — but I don't think there is such a statement.
Of course, what's really relevant, whatever the alerter does, is whether or not his opponents understand that he's made an alert. If they don't, he hasn't, regardless how he did it.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#10
Posted 2009-November-21, 16:58
Sadie3, on Nov 21 2009, 07:31 PM, said:
Using spoken bidding, the partner of the player making an Alertable call says "Alert."
Using bidding boxes, an Alert is made by tapping an Alert card on the table or by tapping the Alert strip on the side of the bid box. In addition, the Alerter must say "Alert."
Using screens, ALL Alerts are immediate - there are no delayed Alerts. All Announcements become Alerts."
I don't see anywhere where it says "mandatory". Nor do I see anywhere where there is a penalty recommended for not using the box when boxes are available.
Correct, it does not say "mandatory". It does not need to. If the rule in the USA is that correct procedure is to drive on the right of the road, that does not mean that you can drive on the left if you feel like it, and you will certainly be penalised if you do so. The wording "Using bidding boxes, an Alert is made by tapping an Alert card on the table or by tapping the Alert strip on the side of the bid box" tells you how to alert.
Penalties are very rarely recommended in bridge for any infraction of procedure. It is generally an area where the TD is expected to use his judgement based on various things like how much trouble failure to follow rules causes to other contestants, whether this player has been warned, and so on. But while many infractions are tolerated without penalty, when failure to follow the rules causes damage then an adjustment is given.
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#11
Posted 2009-November-22, 13:11
I have read, reread, re re read and re re re read the alert procedure and I think it says it is required to verbally say "alert" and that it is a requirement to make sure that your opponents are aware that you have alerted. I think that it is in the "grey" area that one use the bidding box. Does anyone know if it is legal to refuse to use a bidding box completely anymore and only use audible bids?
#12
Posted 2009-November-22, 17:41
Quote
The bidding box regulation says
Quote
I/N events (0-500). Their use will be optional in I/N events.
2. Units and Districts are encouraged to use bidding boxes in their games.
3. Handicapped players requiring bidding boxes will have preference when availability is limited.
4. Non-handicapped players may use bidding boxes, if available, in games in which such use is not mandated as long as no player at the table objects.
So, if the TO specifies that bidding boxes will be used, you can't refuse to use them. If the TO does not so specify, then if any player objects to their use, no one at that table in that round may use them. If a handicapped player wishes to use bidding boxes, though, no one can refuse (I didn't quote that part of the reg, but it is in there).
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#13
Posted 2009-November-23, 01:15
But fully-able players can't refuse to use them if the event requires them.
#14
Posted 2009-November-23, 12:36
Quote
*That a handicapped player has required their use - ER
I suspect that the ACBL did not intend to tie the last two sentences of that paragraph to the first.
The dilemma occurs when one player must use bidding boxes (because he can't hear spoken bidding) and another cannot use them (because he cannot read them). In practice, I've seen that solved by both using bidding boxes (by three players) and using spoken bidding (by all four players). OTOH, we do have players who can't remember spoken bidding at all. They tend to get very confused.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#15
Posted 2009-November-23, 13:47

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