[miguelm]

Teams-Imp's- All

RHO......We......LHO......Pard
1S........DBL......4S.........5D
5S.........?

Your hand is:

Q
K98x
AKx
KQ10xx

Two questions:
1 - how do you play a Pass in this position?
2 - what do you do and why?

Thx in advance.

[Fluffy]

I double again, pass would be minimum.

[helene_t]

Pass would be NF. I think this hand is close, it is either pass or dbl.

[billw55]

I guess 6♦. Maybe unsophisticated, but partner has made a pretty clear choice of strain and here I have AKx.

I think pass here is to defend, which is only right when both 5♠ and 6♦ are down. And even that is not such a big swing. Although in this case, it may be the most likely scenario.

[andy_h]

Agree with Fluffy.

[OleBerg]

1) Non-forcing.
2) Reluctantly double, mostly because 5♦ might esily be a winner, so we need to protect our score.

[655321]

Yes pass is non-forcing. Bidding 6♦ to make now would be silly because we expect to be off 2 Aces, bidding 6♦ as a sacrifice seems silly because (I think) usually they won't make 5♠, so double.

[billw55]

655321, on Nov 17 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

Yes pass is non-forcing. Bidding 6♦ to make now would be silly because we expect to be off 2 Aces, bidding 6♦ as a sacrifice seems silly because (I think) usually they won't make 5♠, so double.

I agree that both contracts down is the most likely result. But the swing for that is smaller than the other outcomes, so I might still try 6♦.

5♠x down, 6♦x down = -200 v. +200 = -400 = -10 IMP
5♠x down, 6♦x makes = +1540 v. +200 = +1340 = +16 IMP
5♠x makes, 6♦x down = -200 v. -850 = +650 = +12 IMP
5♠x makes, 6♦x makes = +1540 v. -850 = +2220 = +20 IMP

So I figure break even is when both fail about 60% of the time. Looking at my hand, is both failing more than 60% likely? I'm not so sure. Righty did open, so opponents are not necessarily sacrificing. And partner bid 5♦ freely missing the AK, so he must have outside values.

Nobody else seems to agree though, am I just way wrong? SJ Simon said when in doubt, bid one more. I guess you guys are not in doubt

[cherdanno]

billw55, on Nov 17 2009, 09:17 AM, said:

655321, on Nov 17 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

Yes pass is non-forcing. Bidding 6♦ to make now would be silly because we expect to be off 2 Aces, bidding 6♦ as a sacrifice seems silly because (I think) usually they won't make 5♠, so double.

I agree that both contracts down is the most likely result. But the swing for that is smaller than the other outcomes, so I might still try 6♦.

5♠x down, 6♦x down = -200 v. +200 = -400 = -10 IMP
5♠x down, 6♦x makes = +1540 v. +200 = +1340 = +16 IMP
5♠x makes, 6♦x down = -200 v. -850 = +650 = +12 IMP
5♠x makes, 6♦x makes = +1540 v. -850 = +2220 = +20 IMP

So I figure break even is when both fail about 60% of the time. Looking at my hand, is both failing more than 60% likely? I'm not so sure. Righty did open, so opponents are not necessarily sacrificing. And partner bid 5♦ freely missing the AK, so he must have outside values.

Nobody else seems to agree though, am I just way wrong?

You ignore the fact that 5♠ may be down more than one. I disagree that partner needs to have much of outside values (and the fact that LHO opened, missing one or two spade honors, makes it quite likely that he has an outside ace). I do think that both 5♠ and 6♦ will fail more than 60% of the time.

[Codo]

I agree with Gonzalo.

And I think that both contracts will fail in more then 80 % of all cases.

[Phil]

Double. The singleton spade is a poor holding, as are the 3 diamonds. Would you be surprised if partner held ♦QJxxxx plus an Ace?

[fachiru]

Hey Miguel, it's been a long time; how u've been/
1) if the opps. were clearly sacrificing, I think pass after 5♠ would be forcing and X would imply 2 spades. Given their 5♠ vuln. bid, things are not so clear now. It would not surprise me if 5♠ made based on some wild distrib.
2) I hit it now, no sure thing, but like it more than bidding on as my hand has only 1 ace and Q sp. wasted. I need to try to get max. penalty (who knows, mbe we'll get it 2 down) for my team, and I'll back my judgement with a X.

[jdonn]

Partner won't have 2 aces. I double, we have extras and just 3 diamonds.

[aguahombre]

Phil, on Nov 17 2009, 08:23 AM, said:

Double....  Would you be surprised if partner held ♦QJxxxx plus an Ace?

And, you cannot reason that partner will look at his hand, see the Ace, and double himself. You (original t/o doubler) either double or it doesn't get doubled.

[Jlall]

crack

[miguelm]

Jlall, on Nov 17 2009, 05:21 PM, said:

crack

I wonder what "crack" means in this context... was expecting something with more content

Anyway, thx all for your contributions.
I am truly surprised at the answers to the first question.... for me this was a clear Forcing Pass situation.... but I guess that has to do with what you "allow" the partnership to bid 5D with.

This board was played in the portuguese national teams championship, and it also was subject in a portuguese Forum.
It was one of the most "freak" combinations I have ever seen, with both making 12 tricks.

RHO..........LHO
AKxxxx.....Jxxxxx
void..........Jxxxx
Jxxx..........void
Axx...........xx

We...........Pard
Q.............void
K98x........AQ10x
AKx..........Q109xxx
KQ10xx.....Jxx

Needless to say, those who Double watch it making +1.
Those who bid 6D, watch oppos bidding 6S, being doubled and making.

I was wondering if passing was a plausible action.

[gwnn]

crack means x. funny hand

[billw55]

miguelm, on Nov 18 2009, 04:44 AM, said:

It was one of the most "freak" combinations I have ever seen, with both making 12 tricks.

hmph, I forgot to include that result in my figures

Amusing that as dealt, 6♦ was the losing action not because it was down, but because it pushed ops to 6♠=.


edit: and really? RHO did not choose to defend 6♦ with two aces and Jxxx of trump?