[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

(1NT)* - 3♠ - (P) - ?

---

*15-17

Stick or twist?

[helene_t]

Pass, maybe it makes on a heart lead.

[jdonn]

4♠, maybe it makes on a heart lead.

[hotShot]

Pass!

And I would be closer to bid 4♠ than to switch to ♥ . If partners ♠ are as good as my ♥, this is likely to make and if they are worse than my ♥ they are more useful as trumps.

Edited: jdonn is right of cause.

This post has been edited by hotShot: 2009-November-16, 12:51

[jdonn]

hotShot, on Nov 16 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

Pass!

And in white I would be closer to bid 4♠ than to switch to ♥ . If partners ♠ are as good as my ♥, this is likely to make and if they are worse than my ♥ they are more useful as trumps.

I'm confused, you are passing vul against not, but if you were not vul you would raise? Isn't that totally backwards since the idea of raising it to make, not as a save? Partner has a better hand for this bid vul than he does not vul.

[whereagles]

4♠. Even if it goes down, they can't double this. Assuming pard is sane, our RHO is broke and he's the only one that could double.

[pooltuna]

Echognome, on Nov 16 2009, 12:54 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(1NT)* - 3♠ - (P) - ?

---

*15-17

Stick or twist?

definitely stick it to him because he shouldn't be twistin' in the wind at these colors 4♠

[pooltuna]

helene_t, on Nov 16 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

Pass, maybe it makes on a heart lead.

to pass you are playing with too many players who do not respect the colors. I suggest you construct an acceptable second seat 3♠ bid for yourself and then compare it opposite your (the OP's) holding

[helene_t]

pooltuna, on Nov 16 2009, 08:47 PM, said:

helene_t, on Nov 16 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

Pass, maybe it makes on a heart lead.

to pass you are playing with too many players who do not respect the colors. I suggest you construct an acceptable second seat 3♠ bid for yourself and then compare it opposite your (the OP's) holding

KQJxxxx
-
xxx
xxx

OK, maybe it's a little too pessimistic, he probably just needs a doubleton club or a non-club lead to make 4♠. Yes, 4♠ it is.

[gnasher]

helene_t, on Nov 16 2009, 08:59 PM, said:

KQJxxxx
-
xxx
xxx

OK, maybe it's a little too pessimistic, he probably just needs a doubleton club or a non-club lead to make 4♠. Yes, 4♠ it is.

4♠ is still very poor opposite KQJxxxx x xxx xx. After a diamond lead or switch, you will need hearts 3-3, spades 3-3, and no trump promotion.

[Jlall]

KQJxxxx and out is a 3S bid red/white over 1N?

Is weak jump overcall even standard over 1N red/white? Genuinely asking, I thought it was usually played as intermediate.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, and glp.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Did not realize, we are red vs. green, ..., 4S.

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Nov 16 2009, 10:05 PM, said:

KQJxxxx and out is a 3S bid red/white over 1N?

Is weak jump overcall even standard over 1N red/white? Genuinely asking, I thought it was usually played as intermediate.

I think that at any vulnerability the objective should be preemption. Even at adverse, a hand that wants to invite game must be even rarer than one that wants to preempt.

That doesn't, however, mean that it should be as weak as KQJxxxx x xx xxx. I suspect that faced with that hand I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation, at least at IMPs. I wouldn't do it at matchpoints though.

If this is on the cusp for me, I suppose that means it's a normal 2♠ for most of the world.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2009-November-17, 03:41

[SchTsch]

4♠

If pard is fooling around with his 3♠ vul vs. nonvul i will find another one

[bill1157]

helene_t, on Nov 16 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Nov 16 2009, 08:47 PM, said:

helene_t, on Nov 16 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

Pass, maybe it makes on a heart lead.

to pass you are playing with too many players who do not respect the colors. I suggest you construct an acceptable second seat 3♠ bid for yourself and then compare it opposite your (the OP's) holding

KQJxxxx
-
xxx
xxx

OK, maybe it's a little too pessimistic, he probably just needs a doubleton club or a non-club lead to make 4♠. Yes, 4♠ it is.

that hand is a 2♠ opener vulnerable vs not.

Bill

[Phil]

On the record for 4♠.

I have not been convinced of the arguments for 4♥.

[manudude03]

bill1157, on Nov 17 2009, 03:04 PM, said:

helene_t, on Nov 16 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Nov 16 2009, 08:47 PM, said:

helene_t, on Nov 16 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

Pass, maybe it makes on a heart lead.

to pass you are playing with too many players who do not respect the colors. I suggest you construct an acceptable second seat 3♠ bid for yourself and then compare it opposite your (the OP's) holding

KQJxxxx
-
xxx
xxx

OK, maybe it's a little too pessimistic, he probably just needs a doubleton club or a non-club lead to make 4♠. Yes, 4♠ it is.

that hand is a 2♠ opener vulnerable vs not.

Bill

You might be surprised what we pre-empt with in the UK (add a minor Q to Helene's hand and it's a WTP 3♠ for me). Let's just say you don't want to see some of my pre-empt suits when the vul is reversed .

[helene_t]

In Mumbai, Shogi opened 3♣ playing against a pair of internationals. They asked me if it was a Dutch or an English preempt. I said it was quite sound for Dutch standards. Shogi turned out to have 11 points. One opp said he couldn't believe Shogi is Dutch, he has never seen a Dutch player preempt with more than 5 points.

OK, points schmoints of course, but that was how the conversation went.

[jdonn]

Phil, on Nov 17 2009, 10:19 AM, said:

On the record for 4♠.

I have not been convinced of the arguments for 4♥.

Has anyone made any?

[Echognome]

jdonn, on Nov 17 2009, 09:52 AM, said:

Phil, on Nov 17 2009, 10:19 AM, said:

On the record for 4♠.

I have not been convinced of the arguments for 4♥.

Has anyone made any?

I'll make the case. Suppose partner has a few hearts and his spades aren't as great as we all think. Say he has KQT9xxx Txx Kx x.

Partner with great spades and a singleton/void heart is welcome to bring it back to 4♠ (which happened at the table). If his suit is self supporting, he knows where to play.

So why not give him the option?