[the hog]

Draco,
if the question is "If you could pick your opponent's conventions, not their basic system, just their conventions. What would you inflict on them?"

Definitely I would force them to play Flannery 2H and mini Roman 2D - now they have wasted 2 of their opening bids as well as giving the opponents useful information should we win the auction.

[luke warm]

heheh... all those blue club teams who won world championships played mini roman... well, most did... the best player in the game plays flannery... and just think, they do it voluntarily, nobody had to inflict it on them

maybe there's *something* to those conventions that we mortals might not understand as well as we think we do? or maybe they're overrated, who knows

[the hog]

"heheh... all those blue club teams who won world championships played mini roman"

Since when is a 17-23 a mini hand, lol? The Blue Team Club uses a 17-23 2D bid. This is a very difficult range to handle with this shape, but it is a far cry from the mini Roman. The now very old fashioned Roman system played 2C and 2D both as 3 suited hands of various ranges. Garozzo certainly no longer uses it in the latest system he plays with Lea DuPont

"the best player in the game plays flannery"
Geir Helgemo, generally regarded as the best player in the world, has never played Flannery to my knowledge. Duboin has not, Lauria has not. Meckstroth, also in the top 3 or 4 plays it no longer and Balicki has never played it, neither has Pszczoła. So who is the best player in the game who plays it?

[twcho]

I guess the best player Luke is referring to is Bob Hamman who has been ranked no. 1 player in WBF for more than 20 years. He plays Flannery.

[the hog]

Since when does being ranked no 1 mean you are best?

[MickyB]

pclayton, on Jul 10 2004, 01:02 AM, said:

6) Natural 2N opener. Real smart - start your slam auctions at the 3 level. Have had much success with playing this as unusual. Other pet peeves - three point ranges for a 2N Opener (22-24) or a natural 3N Opener showing 25-27

Strange, I almost mentioned an Unusual 2NT opener as a 'worst convention'. Using Unusual over Unusual, direct seat can make a weaker bid, a stronger bid and a GF in each major, or show interest in penalties. You've also told the opps everything they need to know about the hand. Compare this to a 3♣ opener showing 5-5 in ♣ and another.

[luke warm]

ron has a point, being ranked #1 isn't always the same as being the best... certainly the players he named are great ones... but hamman has proved himself many times over... he's played with and against some of the ones on ron's list, and he's come out on top more often than not... he's still coming out on top

rankings may not be 100% accurate, but they do reflect *something* about the state of a sport or the position of its teams/players... they can't be simply ignored, imho

anyway, i doubt if by assigning a good pair those 2 conventions they'd be placed at any great disadvantage

you have a 1=4=4=4 13 count and open 1C (or 1D)... pard bids 1S... your bid

you have a 4=4=4=1 13 count and open 1D... pard bids 1nt.. your bid

[Trpltrbl]

Quote

you have a 1=4=4=4 13 count and open 1C (or 1D)... pard bids 1S... your bid

I open 1♦ and rebid 2♣.

Quote

you have a 4=4=4=1 13 count and open 1D... pard bids 1nt.. your bid

Pass, pd "promises" ♣ and denies a 4 card major.

Mike

[1eyedjack]

pclayton, on Jul 9 2004, 07:02 PM, said:

6) Natural 2N opener. Real smart - start your slam auctions at the 3 level.

Few players that I know play anything approaching the optimal continuations after a natural 2N opener. It is easy to condemn the opener when it is the continuations that may be at fault.

[Flame]

Jurnalist leads. a great way to help declerer.

[luke warm]

you might be right... but how does it help more than any other leads? they use ruskinow honor leads plus low from odd, 3rd from even... i can't see how this helps declarer any more than, say, 2/4 or 3/5 or just 4th

[pclayton]

MickyB, on Jul 11 2004, 12:38 PM, said:

pclayton, on Jul 10 2004, 01:02 AM, said:

6) Natural 2N opener. Real smart - start your slam auctions at the 3 level. Have had much success with playing this as unusual. Other pet peeves - three point ranges for a 2N Opener (22-24) or a natural 3N Opener showing 25-27

Strange, I almost mentioned an Unusual 2NT opener as a 'worst convention'. Using Unusual over Unusual, direct seat can make a weaker bid, a stronger bid and a GF in each major, or show interest in penalties. You've also told the opps everything they need to know about the hand. Compare this to a 3♣ opener showing 5-5 in ♣ and another.

I've played a 3♣ with Remin here to show both minors and 2N to show a weak minor preempt. This works well. I like it even better than an unusual 2N opener for the reasons stated. I'm not sure if the 2N opener showing an unknown minor preempt is OK around here (in ACBL land) - I need to check.

Having a strong 2N opener is really a result of either insisting on a weak 2♦ call or not playing strong club. I shouldn't have been so hard on this call, especially as a lot of top pairs still play it.

BIG difference however in opening 2N for the minors and overcalling 2N, once the opps have had the chance to make an opening bid in front of you.

[1eyedjack]

I see that no-one has yet put in a plug for the "wide range 1N rebid" (a la Crowhurst) as one of the worst conventions, so I shall put my vote in for that.

It is one of those conventions which will be voted as one of the best conventions by those who use it and one of the worst conventions by those who do not. No half measures. Falling into the latter category myself I have put it in this thread rather than the "best" thread. Doubtless someone will restore the balance.

1C - 1S
1N(1) - 2C(2)
2D(3)

(1) Pretty much anything
(2) Well, opposite the maximum of pretty much anything I have a game try. Where do you want to be?
(3) 1NT

[helene_t]

1eyedjack, on Jul 11 2004, 08:58 AM, said:

pclayton, on Jul 9 2004, 07:02 PM, said:

6) Natural 2N opener. Real smart - start your slam auctions at the 3 level.

Few players that I know play anything approaching the optimal continuations after a natural 2N opener. It is easy to condemn the opener when it is the continuations that may be at fault.

What is the optimal response scheme to 2NT? In the Netherlands, most people have "Niemeijer" on there convention card. This combines Pubbet stayman with Minor Suit Asking, allowing any 4-4 or 5-3 fit to be found (as long as openers hand is not off-shaped). For example:
2NT-3♣*
3♦-4♠*
Here, responder first asks for a 5-card major and then transfers to diamonds.
One problem with this is that it assumes opener to have 4333,4432 or 5332 which is too strict in practice. Also, you will probably not bypass 3NT before having found a minor suit fit if you have 10-11 HCPs oposite opener's 20-21 (just short of a quanti). But the worst problem is that nobody plays the complete scheme. So if you agree with somebody to play "Niemeijer", it means "we both play some subset of Niemeijer, let's hope it happens to be the same subset".

[EarlPurple]

1eyedjack, on Jul 12 2004, 05:38 AM, said:

I see that no-one has yet put in a plug for the "wide range 1N rebid" (a la Crowhurst) as one of the worst conventions, so I shall put my vote in for that.

It is one of those conventions which will be voted as one of the best conventions by those who use it and one of the worst conventions by those who do not. No half measures. Falling into the latter category myself I have put it in this thread rather than the "best" thread. Doubtless someone will restore the balance.

1C - 1S
1N(1) - 2C(2)
2D(3)

(1) Pretty much anything
(2) Well, opposite the maximum of pretty much anything I have a game try. Where do you want to be?
(3) 1NT

I agree that you do not want to play a wide-range NT after an opening bid of 1♣ and probably not 1♦ (though what are you supposed to bid with a 4-4-4-1 hand in your NT range if you open 1♦ and partner responds 2♣?)

But if you do not want to open balanced hands with a 5 card major with 1NT when it falls in your NT range, you have to be able to rebid NT on such hands.

I used to play 5 card majors and a weak NT years ago, and there's nothing terribly wrong with:

1H-1S-1NT is wide-range. 2C asks.

1H-2/1 in minor-2NT is weak

1H-2/1 in minor-3NT with medium (15-17) hands. 3NT is usually where you want to play and partner can still repeat his minor with a good hand looking for slam.

Playing 4-card majors and a weak NT (i.e. Acol, which is what Crowhurst played), the 1H-1S-1NT sequence can also be wide-range. If it's weak it will usually promise 5 hearts but may be 1-4-4-4.

2♣ is then artificial and partner's bid should be:
2♦: weak
2♥: 5 hearts, strong
2♠: 3 spades, strong
2NT: 4 hearts, 2 spades, strong.

Acol players prefer to open the 4 card major rather than the 4 card minor on 15+ 4-4-3-2 hands. (I'm not sure I like that method. A weak hand now has to bid 1NT which is non-forcing and will be passed a lot of the time. Now the weak hand never gets to show his suit).

[1eyedjack]

EarlPurple, on Jul 12 2004, 05:58 AM, said:

(though what are you supposed to bid with a 4-4-4-1 hand in your NT range if you open 1♦ and partner responds 2♣?)

In a level 4 event I would open 2H to show a minimum opener 3-suited hand including Hearts (shortage otherwise unspecified). In a level 3 event I would open 1D and rebid 2D (not promising more than 4 Diamonds).

EarlPurple, on Jul 12 2004, 05:58 AM, said:

But if you do not want to open balanced hands with a 5 card major with 1NT when it falls in your NT range, you have to be able to rebid NT on such hands.

I am more than content to open 1NT with a 5 card major. If there is a 5 card major that I have reservations about concealing it is when that suit is Spades - the one major suit in which a 1N rebid is never a possibility. With 5 Hearts I think a 1N opener is a no-brainer.

EarlPurple, on Jul 12 2004, 05:58 AM, said:

I used to play 5 card majors and a weak NT years ago, and there's nothing terribly wrong with:

1H-1S-1NT is wide-range. 2C asks.

Agreed. 2M is usually about as safe as 1N in that scenario.

EarlPurple, on Jul 12 2004, 05:58 AM, said:

Playing 4-card majors and a weak NT (i.e. Acol, which is what Crowhurst played), the 1H-1S-1NT sequence can also be wide-range. If it's weak it will usually promise 5 hearts but may be 1-4-4-4.

I would open 1D with 1-4-4-4, even playing Acol (assuming I was not playing the 3-suited 2H opener).

EarlPurple, on Jul 12 2004, 05:58 AM, said:

Acol players prefer to open the 4 card major rather than the 4 card minor on 15+ 4-4-3-2 hands.

Some Acol players maybe. Many would still open the 4 card minor, myself included.

[1eyedjack]

helene_t, on Jul 12 2004, 04:28 AM, said:

What is the optimal response scheme to 2NT? In the Netherlands, most people have "Niemeijer" on there convention card.

I make no claim to know the optimal response scheme. It is sufficient that if method A is superior to methods B, C, D etc, then method A does not have to be the optimal method for methods B, C and D to be conclusively suboptimal. I reckon that I have a method A and that most of the population are using methods B, C, D etc.

Having said that, confess that I am not familiar with, nor have encountered, Niemeijer, which for all I know may be better yet. I am only comparing with methods that I have encountered.

I would just comment that there is more to responding to 2N than the 3C response.

[Free]

Pfffffff, other thread is about Niemeijer and stuff like that, I think my method is still better than Niemeijer or whatever method, since I can show a lot of different handtypes (any 54+M or freak hands most of the time), and I can ask about specific cards as well.

Niemeijer is quite simple and effective imo, since it always rightsides the contract and lets you find out about 4- and 5-card Majors. It's the best for players willing to play as natural as possible and want to improve their stayman after 2NT.

[Trpltrbl]

Thx all for the replies. Enjoyed reading most of them.

Mike