[ajm218]

Scoring: IMP

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1♣ P 1♥ (3♠)
  x  P  

[pooltuna]

ajm218, on Nov 11 2009, 08:32 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

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1♣ P 1♥ (3♠)
  x  P  

hmmm to paraphrase Eric Leong "how else can you tell the opponents they have made a mistake" I pass, although if I was the 3♠ bidder this would not rate to be a good result for you.

[paulg]

5♥. Hopefully if partner accepts the invite he will offer the choice of clubs, but this is probably just wishful thinking

Over 5♠ I bid 6♣.

[Codo]

Wow 5 Heart? I bid 4 Heart, but maybe I had bid stronger if I had the slightest idea what partners double showed.

[phil_20686]

I think bidding anythying other than 4h is optimistic. Partners double just shows extra playing strength and not 4 hearts. he could easily be 1345 13 or 14 count, and not sure of the strain, or even if passing 3s x might be best. I think you just bid a quiet 4h.

[Phil]

cardsharp, on Nov 11 2009, 10:11 AM, said:

5♥. Hopefully if partner accepts the invite he will offer the choice of clubs, but this is probably just wishful thinking

Over 5♠ I bid 6♣.

Nothing wishful about it. You are staring at an opening hand with incredible trump and partner is forcing you to the four level or to play 3♠x'd. Partner does not have a 14 count here.

Frankly, 5♥ may not be enough, but it looks right to me.

[Jlall]

yeah 5H is a good bid

[Fluffy]

agree with cardsharp nothing else seems to fit.

[aguahombre]

and partner with AJTX X AKX AXXXX was supposed to do what?

[andy_h]

phil_20686, on Nov 12 2009, 03:15 AM, said:

I think bidding anythying other than 4h is optimistic. Partners double just shows extra playing strength and not 4 hearts. he could easily be 1345 13 or 14 count, and not sure of the strain, or even if passing 3s x might be best. I think you just bid a quiet 4h.

How is 1345 with 13-14 counted as extra playing strength when responder has only shown a responding hand? Surely with minimums you can pass and let responder tell us what he has.

I'm also a 5♥ bidder, AKQxxx and Q of partner's suit is just too good.

[andy_h]

aguahombre, on Nov 12 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

and partner with AJTX X AKX AXXXX was supposed to do what?

Partner's double was not for penalties.

[aguahombre]

andy_h, on Nov 11 2009, 05:46 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Nov 12 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

and partner with AJTX X AKX AXXXX was supposed to do what?

Partner's double was not for penalties.

My partner's double was for penalties, or at least describing a hand similar to my example. Support doubles or other doubles which say "please steal from me" are not my area of expertise, but if they were they would not be used at this level.

[andy_h]

aguahombre, on Nov 12 2009, 11:55 AM, said:

andy_h, on Nov 11 2009, 05:46 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Nov 12 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

and partner with AJTX X AKX AXXXX was supposed to do what?

Partner's double was not for penalties.

My partner's double was for penalties, or at least describing a hand similar to my example. Support doubles or other doubles which say "please steal from me" are not my area of expertise, but if they were they would not be used at this level.

If partner's double was strictly for penalties, like the hand you suggested, then we have a wtp pass. Then this problem would not have been posed. (Who on earth would remove a penalty double by partner when opps are r/w and we have AKQ and 2 spades)

[quiddity]

aguahombre, on Nov 11 2009, 07:55 PM, said:

andy_h, on Nov 11 2009, 05:46 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Nov 12 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

and partner with AJTX X AKX AXXXX was supposed to do what?

Partner's double was not for penalties.

My partner's double was for penalties, or at least describing a hand similar to my example. Support doubles or other doubles which say "please steal from me" are not my area of expertise, but if they were they would not be used at this level.

As usual, when the opponents preempt you're more likely to hold a good hand with shortness in their suit rather than AJTx in their suit. What is your partner doing with 2335, 1345 etc and extra values?

[ajm218]

5♥ was the winning action - p had:

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[phil_20686]

andy_h, on Nov 11 2009, 07:45 PM, said:

phil_20686, on Nov 12 2009, 03:15 AM, said:

I think bidding anythying other than 4h is optimistic. Partners double just shows extra playing strength and not 4 hearts. he could easily be 1345 13 or 14 count, and not sure of the strain, or even if passing 3s x might be best. I think you just bid a quiet 4h.

How is 1345 with 13-14 counted as extra playing strength when responder has only shown a responding hand? Surely with minimums you can pass and let responder tell us what he has.

A lot of people here on the forums open some balanced 11 counts. When you could be holding:
Axxx xx KJx KJxx

How is

x KQx Qjxx AQxxx not worth showing extras?

Its even important to differentiate handslike that above from Qxx x KQJx AQxxx.

Sure, partner might have a pile of rubbish and you go for 800, but you are also giving partner a headache because he doesnt know if you are balanced or unbalanced. We all would bid 4h with any hand with 4h, because we think its % action, dble is not really different I think.

Perhaps 5h is a good bid though, I was put off by the two little spades, but now that i think about it, partner would surely not dble every with a weak nt and two spades, so if he has 2 spades he is quite likely to be in the 18-19 balanced option. If he has a stiff spade then probably slam will be playable. x xxx Axxx AKxxx is alreadly enough. Perhaps there are some 2245 hands that would dble here if 15-16 points.

[pooltuna]

ajm218, on Nov 12 2009, 09:07 AM, said:

5♥ was the winning action - p had:

Dealer:   Vul:   Scoring:

♠ x ♥ T9x ♦ AKQT ♣ AKJxx

what was partner going to do over 3♠ if instead of the acutal hand he held

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[cherdanno]

phil_20686, on Nov 12 2009, 09:19 AM, said:

A lot of people here on the forums open some balanced 11 counts. When you could be holding:
Axxx xx KJx KJxx

How is

x KQx Qjxx AQxxx not worth showing extras?

Its even important to differentiate handslike that above from Qxx x KQJx AQxxx.

Sure, partner might have a pile of rubbish and you go for 800, but you are also giving partner a headache because he doesnt know if you are balanced or unbalanced. We all would bid 4h with any hand with 4h, because we think its % action, dble is not really different I think.

As for your first example, it might be better to construct examples that don't have ♥AKQ, as we have them. If you take a 1345 14-count with xxx of hearts, and good controls to make up for that, well, then you are already in slam territory.

And no, I would definitely not bid 4♥ with any hand with 4-card support.