[gwnn]

2/1, forcing NT.

Somebody told me about this:

1♠-1NT
2m-3♥

and

1♠-3♥

both show 6 good hearts and about 10 points but one of them promises exactly 2 spades and the other one shows 0-1 spades. What do you think of this? Which one should be which? I was thinking perhaps over 1S-1N 2S it might make sense to just jump to 4H directly with 2-6 in the majors (possible overbid)?

Somebody else told me that

1♠-1N
2m-3♥ should be a cuebid (A, K, singleton or void) for the minor. I don't think that's a very good idea but maybe a fit jump for the minor could be better? If it is a FJ should it be 5-4, 5-5, 4-5, 4-6, ?

[ONEferBRID]

gwnn, on Nov 9 2009, 10:42 AM, said:

2/1, forcing NT.

Somebody told me about this:

1♠-1NT
2m-3♥

and

1♠-3♥

both show 6 good hearts and about 10 points but one of them promises exactly 2 spades and the other one shows 0-1 spades. What do you think of this? Which one should be which? I was thinking perhaps over 1S-1N 2S it might make sense to just jump to 4H directly with 2-6 in the majors (possible overbid)?

Somebody else told me that

1♠-1N
2m-3♥ should be a cuebid (A, K, singleton or void) for the minor. I don't think that's a very good idea but maybe a fit jump for the minor could be better? If it is a FJ should it be 5-4, 5-5, 4-5, 4-6, ?

I believe this one is almost exactly like the problem kfay posted last week ( or so ).
[ I can't seem to find it now ] .
I believe it went:
1H - 1NT ( not known if forcing or not )
2D - 4Cjump

Some thought it was a splinter for Diam... but would have to be a hand such as
3 2 7 1 ...

Others opted for a fit-jump... a hand like:
2 1 4 6....but this was rejected because the poster said 1H - 3C would describe such a hand....

Moster were "perplexed" , including me... and I asked kfay to tell us what was described at the table... no reply

[ArtK78]

It is well known that 1♥-1NT (forcing) - 2m - 2♠ is an artificial strong raise of opener's minor suit.

How to accomplish the same thing after 1♠-1NT (forcing) - 2m is far more troublesome. Since responder can actually have a heart suit without the values to make a 2/1, 2♥ is not available for this purpose.

I would reserve 3♥ for a strong raise of the minor suit rather than a hand with hearts alone. Whether it should show hearts (a fit jump) or be totally artificial is up to the player.

If one held a good enough hand with just hearts to justify a 3♥ bid over 2m, then the hand was probably good enough to bid 2♥ over 1♠.

[jdonn]

ONEferBRID, on Nov 9 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

Others opted for a fit-jump... a hand like:
2 1 4 6....but this was rejected because the poster said 1H - 3C would describe such a hand....

I don't believe it was rejected. The clubs may not be good enough for 3♣ last round, or he could fit jump with 2155, 2164, 1255, 1246, 1264, or shapes like 2173 as well.

In this thread usually if you bid 1NT first you have 2-6 simply as a way to differentiate and not play in a worse fit. But I like the jumps below 3NT as fit jumps promising at least 5-4 and being non-forcing.

[kenrexford]

FWIW, I think there is pot5entially a wild difference between:

1♠-1NT-2♣-3♥ and
1♠-1NT-2♦-3♥

That is, if you play BART.

Playing BART, on the first you could bid 2♦ and then 3♥ no matter what Opener does (just about) or bid 3♥ directly. These should, IMO, be different.

[Jlall]

You could play 1N then 3H as:

1) Fit showing
2) Invitational with a weak suit
3) Invitational with a doubleton spade

[Phil]

Jlall, on Nov 9 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

You could play 1N then 3H as:

1) Fit showing
2) Invitational with a weak suit
3) Invitational with a doubleton spade

OR 4) Splinter

[aguahombre]

I think I will let the Hog do this one, too.

[mike777]

gwnn, on Nov 9 2009, 10:42 AM, said:

2/1, forcing NT.

Somebody told me about this:

1♠-1NT
2m-3♥

and

1♠-3♥

both show 6 good hearts and about 10 points but one of them promises exactly 2 spades and the other one shows 0-1 spades. What do you think of this? Which one should be which? I was thinking perhaps over 1S-1N 2S it might make sense to just jump to 4H directly with 2-6 in the majors (possible overbid)?

Somebody else told me that

1♠-1N
2m-3♥ should be a cuebid (A, K, singleton or void)  for the minor. I don't think that's a very good idea but maybe a fit jump for the minor could be better? If it is a FJ should it be 5-4, 5-5, 4-5, 4-6, ?

Hopefully this is on point.

many play:


1s=1nt
2c=BART so:


3h=6+h and invitational values.

---

I would just guess that:
1s=1nt
2d=3h=same...



----



I play 1s=3h as unspecified suit (stiff or void) splinter......3s asks, 3nt relay says unspecified void, etc:

[cherdanno]

Phil, on Nov 9 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 9 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

You could play 1N then 3H as:

1) Fit showing
2) Invitational with a weak suit
3) Invitational with a doubleton spade

OR 4) Splinter

Do you think
a) Justin forgot to list this meaning, or
b) was implying that he think it is a bad agreement?

[gnasher]

cherdanno, on Nov 10 2009, 05:12 AM, said:

Phil, on Nov 9 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 9 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

You could play 1N then 3H as:

1) Fit showing
2) Invitational with a weak suit
3) Invitational with a doubleton spade

OR 4) Splinter

Do you think
a) Justin forgot to list this meaning, or
was implying that he think it is a bad agreement?

Are we only allowed to suggest things that Justin thinks are a good idea?

[ArtK78]

Given that you don't have spade support, what shape are you implying by bidding 3♥ splinter?

2-1-5-5
2-1-6-4
1-1-6-5
1-1-5-6

Seems kind of unlikely to me.

[kenrexford]

ArtK78, on Nov 10 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

Given that you don't have spade support, what shape are you implying by bidding 3♥ splinter?

2-1-5-5
2-1-6-4
1-1-6-5
1-1-5-6

Seems kind of unlikely to me.

Why do you not have spade support?

Can't you be in theory making a splinter with spade support?

How about 3-1-5-4 or 3-1-4-5, with a limit raise valuation?

I'm not saying here that this is the right way to play, but...

♠Qxx ♥x ♦Qxxxx ♣Axxx opposite
♠AKxxx ♥xxx ♦AKxx ♣x?

In 6♦, with normal splits, we take five diamonds, one club, and three spades on power, for 9 tricks. If spades split no worse that 4-1, that's trick #10. If diamondssplit no worse than 3-1, that's trick #11. So, we need diamonds or spades to cooperate better, or a spade Jack, or a working spade 10, of something.

Not a bad diamond slam.

6♠? Not so good.

[Jlall]

gnasher, on Nov 10 2009, 04:42 PM, said:

cherdanno, on Nov 10 2009, 05:12 AM, said:

Phil, on Nov 9 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 9 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

You could play 1N then 3H as:

1) Fit showing
2) Invitational with a weak suit
3) Invitational with a doubleton spade

OR 4) Splinter

Do you think
a) Justin forgot to list this meaning, or
was implying that he think it is a bad agreement?

Are we only allowed to suggest things that Justin thinks are a good idea?

Sounds good to me!

[cherdanno]

gnasher, on Nov 10 2009, 04:42 PM, said:

cherdanno, on Nov 10 2009, 05:12 AM, said:

Phil, on Nov 9 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 9 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

You could play 1N then 3H as:

1) Fit showing
2) Invitational with a weak suit
3) Invitational with a doubleton spade

OR 4) Splinter

Do you think
a) Justin forgot to list this meaning, or
B) was implying that he think it is a bad agreement?

Are we only allowed to suggest things that Justin thinks are a good idea?

Am I not allowed to ask whether Phil thinks Justin forgot this meaning, or he thinks Justin thinks it's a bad meaning?

[Phil]

cherdanno, on Nov 10 2009, 08:09 PM, said:

gnasher, on Nov 10 2009, 04:42 PM, said:

cherdanno, on Nov 10 2009, 05:12 AM, said:

Phil, on Nov 9 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 9 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

You could play 1N then 3H as:

1) Fit showing
2) Invitational with a weak suit
3) Invitational with a doubleton spade

OR 4) Splinter

Do you think
a) Justin forgot to list this meaning, or
was implying that he think it is a bad agreement?

Are we only allowed to suggest things that Justin thinks are a good idea?

Am I not allowed to ask whether Phil thinks Justin forgot this meaning, or he thinks Justin thinks it's a bad meaning?

No Phil was just listing a way 3♥ is played, since Justin's list was not complete.

He does not play this way, nor hasn't for quite a long time.

Others do play this method and their last name is not necessarily Rexford.

[Fluffy]

ArtK78, on Nov 10 2009, 10:02 PM, said:

Given that you don't have spade support, what shape are you implying by bidding 3♥ splinter?

2-1-5-5
2-1-6-4
1-1-6-5
1-1-5-6

Seems kind of unlikely to me.

if you use 1♠-3♥ as splinter and the other as the limit it will make more sense.