[kfay]

What are your thoughts on this auction?

1♥-1NT
2♦-4♣

Now I realize everyone is going to probably be all like 'wtf, kfay? splinter!'

Anyway, I'm a tad confused by it.

Edit:

Let's also imagine that you play 1♥-3♣ as natural and invitational.

[pooltuna]

kfay, on Oct 29 2009, 01:33 PM, said:

What are your thoughts on this auction?

1♥-1NT
2♦-4♣

Now I realize everyone is going to probably be all like 'wtf, kfay?  splinter!'

Anyway, I'm a tad confused by it.

assuming no F1NT and 4♣=splinter partner should hold a max of 3♠ (or 4 trashy ones), a max of 2♥ so with a stiff♣ he is left with 7♦ he should probably hold 3 key cards in the non♣ suits. This should not conflict with 3♣ as invitational

[kfay]

pooltuna, on Oct 29 2009, 01:44 PM, said:

kfay, on Oct 29 2009, 01:33 PM, said:

What are your thoughts on this auction?

1♥-1NT
2♦-4♣

Now I realize everyone is going to probably be all like 'wtf, kfay?  splinter!'

Anyway, I'm a tad confused by it.

assuming no F1NT and 4♣=splinter partner should hold a max of 3♠ (or 4 trashy ones), a max of 2♥ so with a stiff♣ he is left with 7♦ he should probably hold 3 key cards in the non♣ suits. This should not conflict with 3♣ as invitational

Yeah so this is the first conclusion that I think anyone would arrive at if you consider it to be a splinter.

But why am I not bidding 2♠?
Does 4♣ mean I have total crap 3271 shape? If that's the case why aren't the opponents bidding the blacks?
What are the requirements to bid 4♦ over 2♦? Is this like a picture-jump in the reds?

Please someone help me!!!

[karlson]

I would assume splinter undiscussed, but I agree that it basically DNE. I don't think there's another standard.

There was a suggestion to play it as a slammish diamond raise with a club control in the comments on the imp chimp. link

I suspect that something even more useful coule be invented

[jdonn]

I like to make the specific agreement that there are no splinters after a forcing 1NT response, since the most likely shortness by far is in opener's suit. I play bids like this as fit jump but with very loose requirements as to shape. So for me it's a huge diamond raise with club values. Maybe xx x Kxxxxx AQJx perhaps.

[Jlall]

4C splinter is LOL bad. You don't have 4 spades and you don't have 3 hearts...

Totally agree with the jdonn interpretation, this auction is analagous to 1S 1N 2H 4m which is just values in that suit with a heart fit.

[kenrexford]

Interesting problem.

IF 1NT is forcing, then the problem is more complicated. Responder could easily have a double fit scenario and a splinter. Maybe 3361 pattern with what was going to be shown as a limit raise? Perhaps a hand like ♠xxx ♥Kxx ♦AJxxxx ♣x makes sense. The 2♠ option in the forcing 1NT scenario seems to support a conclusion that perhaps the splinter in the scenario is best as double-fit.

If 1NT is not forcing, then the double fit scenario is not possible. However, one could still have a splinter meaning, with the assumption that the immediate splinter (not via 2♠) implies a strong doubleton (Ax or Kx) in hearts (same example hand, but one less heart and one more diamond). An option bid, if you will, or a picture bid.

Either sequence also has merit as an implied shortness in hearts sequence, a fit bid as Josh mentioned. The idea, I suppose, would be to bid 2♠ with the double-fit scenario (or the strong doubleton scenario), planning to hopefully be able to bid hearts later as a "natural" call.

If the 1NT call is not forcing, it seems that the "strong doubleton" with a seven-bagger is sufficiently rare that the fit bid seems way more utilitarion. If the 1NT call is forcing, the occurrence might be more frequent.

However, I think the better analysis of what the call should mean (perhaps) is to decide what the parallel sequence of a spade jump (3♠) should mean. Ideally, both 3♠ and 4♣ should have the same type, with other hands handled through 2♠.

So, 1♥-P-1NT-P-2♦-P-3♠? Now, a fairly normal 1-3-5-4 seems reasonably frequent. The double-fit scenario seems much more likely (except for the opposition silence in spades, perhaps) after a forcing 1NT, and 1-2-5-5/1-2-6-4 is not that wildly funky in the non-frocing scenario.

However, the 3♠ call as a fit-bid seems unlikely.

So, if the "system" is to be consistent structurally, it seems to me that the 4♣ call should actually be the double-fit scenario. On the other hand, I am also not sure that system consistency is necessarily ideal here.

Tough one.

Undiscussed, this should not happen. I'd be open in a discussion to whatever partner thinks.

[the hog]

Not a splinter, but rather fit showing.
Responder has something like
x
xx
kxxx
AQJxxx

or similar.

[ArtK78]

A number of years ago there was a short article in The Bridge World in the category of interesting gadgets. I don't have any recollection of who the author was.

The idea was to provide a method of bidding a hand with honor third in support for partner's major suit opening with a strong six card major on the side, such as:

x Kxx xxx AQJTxx

The suggestion was 1NT followed by 4 of the minor over partner's 2 level rebid (even if partner bid the same minor).

I play this with one partner, but it has yet to come up.

Obviously, you can't spring this on anyone at the table. As has been mentioned above, it sounds as though partner does not have a heart fit on this auction. But it is a rational method to play for an otherwise nearly useless sequence.

I note that Ken mentioned a similar type hand in his post above, but the minor suit is not as good, and Ken suggested that the 4 of the minor bid was a splinter rather than a suit.

[ONEferBRID]

kfay, on Oct 29 2009, 01:33 PM, said:

What are your thoughts on this auction?

1♥-1NT
2♦-4♣

Now I realize everyone is going to probably be all like 'wtf, kfay? splinter!'

Anyway, I'm a tad confused by it.

Edit:

Let's also imagine that you play 1♥-3♣ as natural and invitational.

Well, Kfay.......what was the 4C-jump in your auction ?

I can't imagine it means length now (fit-jump) with an opportunity to show the invite immediately ( as you said: 1H - 3C ).

On the other hand I can't imagine Cl shortness now with a 3 2 7 1 shape.
By the same agreement, Responder could have bid 1H - 3D immediately.

I'm stumped

[kfay]

ONEferBRID, on Nov 3 2009, 10:01 PM, said:

kfay, on Oct 29 2009, 01:33 PM, said:

What are your thoughts on this auction?

1♥-1NT
2♦-4♣

Now I realize everyone is going to probably be all like 'wtf, kfay?  splinter!'

Anyway, I'm a tad confused by it.

Edit:

Let's also imagine that you play 1♥-3♣ as natural and invitational.

Well, Kfay.......what was the 4C-jump in your auction ?

I can't imagine it means length now (fit-jump) with an opportunity to show the invite immediately ( as you said: 1H - 3C ).

On the other hand I can't imagine Cl shortness now with a 3 2 7 1 shape.
By the same agreement, Responder could have bid 1H - 3D immediately.

I'm stumped

Sorry I just realized you asked me something when reading Gwnn's thread

Someone played a hand that contained this auction with a BBO 'expert.' So I said 'well clearly it's clubs' which is what s/he had. 7 to the KQ..?? I think is what my friend told me.

But then I thought about the auction for about 2 minutes and my brain exploded.