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this is a simple question. i thought i knew the answer but recently i have had 2 independent sources telling me otherwise
after partner asks for keycards and you have 2, when is it ok to fake the existence of the trump Q when you don't have it? (ie. answer 5S instead of 5H even when you don't have the trump Q)
1. when you have 1 more trump than partner expects
2. when you have 2 more trumps than partner expects OR a known 10+ card fit
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faking existence of trump Q after RKC
#2
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Posted 2009-November-07, 23:47
raist, on Nov 8 2009, 12:30 AM, said:
this is a simple question. i thought i knew the answer but recently i have had 2 independent sources telling me otherwise
after partner asks for keycards and you have 2, when is it ok to fake the existence of the trump Q when you don't have it?
after partner asks for keycards and you have 2, when is it ok to fake the existence of the trump Q when you don't have it?
This is easy....the answer is never.
Never fake the Q.
Just tell partner you have the Q or you have extra length, but never fake either!
If you do not have a way to tell partner you have extra length, change your system.
#3
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Posted 2009-November-08, 00:02
Its standard to fake the Q with a known 10 card fit. I think its dangerous to play it as showing an extra trump.
This sounds like a rule someone made up and has become a norm in some region.
This sounds like a rule someone made up and has become a norm in some region.
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#4
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Posted 2009-November-08, 00:09
When the faker is the only one who knows about the ten card fit at that point.
Otherwise it is pointless.
Otherwise it is pointless.
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#5
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Posted 2009-November-08, 00:11
When the faker is the only one who knows(or might be the only one who knows) about the ten card fit at that point.
Otherwise it is pointless.
Otherwise it is pointless.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#6
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Posted 2009-November-08, 04:49
3. When you know that you are very likely to make as many tricks as you would if you had the queen.
1. is clearly wrong. If the auction starts e.g. 1C - 1H - 3H - 4D - 4NT then responder should not show the queen of hearts just because he has a fifth trump. Whilst it is true that (in theory) the odds just favour being in a slam missing an ace and Qxxx of trumps, it's rare that is all the hand is about - there may be a ruff out, there may be a side suit to set up, you may be missing QJ10x of trump.... You also don't want to be a in a grand missing the queen of trumps.
2. Is sometimes right, but again you need to think about the hand. If either 12 or 13 tricks are there and it's just about having no trump loser, then it's right to show the queen because I'm happy to be in slam missing Qxx. But if I'm going to be playing the hand on a cross-ruff, or I need to take a few ruffs in dummy, the presence or absence of the queen can make a big difference to how good the contract is.
1. is clearly wrong. If the auction starts e.g. 1C - 1H - 3H - 4D - 4NT then responder should not show the queen of hearts just because he has a fifth trump. Whilst it is true that (in theory) the odds just favour being in a slam missing an ace and Qxxx of trumps, it's rare that is all the hand is about - there may be a ruff out, there may be a side suit to set up, you may be missing QJ10x of trump.... You also don't want to be a in a grand missing the queen of trumps.
2. Is sometimes right, but again you need to think about the hand. If either 12 or 13 tricks are there and it's just about having no trump loser, then it's right to show the queen because I'm happy to be in slam missing Qxx. But if I'm going to be playing the hand on a cross-ruff, or I need to take a few ruffs in dummy, the presence or absence of the queen can make a big difference to how good the contract is.
#7
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Posted 2009-November-08, 07:05
raist, on Nov 8 2009, 12:30 AM, said:
this is a simple question. i thought i knew the answer but recently i have had 2 independent sources telling me otherwise
after partner asks for keycards and you have 2, when is it ok to fake the existence of the trump Q when you don't have it? (ie. answer 5S instead of 5H even when you don't have the trump Q)
1. when you have 1 more trump than partner expects
2. when you have 2 more trumps than partner expects OR a known 10+ card fit
after partner asks for keycards and you have 2, when is it ok to fake the existence of the trump Q when you don't have it? (ie. answer 5S instead of 5H even when you don't have the trump Q)
1. when you have 1 more trump than partner expects
2. when you have 2 more trumps than partner expects OR a known 10+ card fit
in 1)psyches are allowed if you want the opps to help you find it. Of course partner will assume your side has it so it is not risk free. In 2) this is common expert practice but assumes you have the K. The odds of not picking up the Q are so low that it is ignored.
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Posted 2009-November-08, 07:34
As I learned RKCB, the 5♠ response systemically showed EITHER
The Queen of Trump OR
Extra trump length
The word "fake" never entered into the picture.
This was the systemic agreement.
Its possible that this is a geographic exception.
The Queen of Trump OR
Extra trump length
The word "fake" never entered into the picture.
This was the systemic agreement.
Its possible that this is a geographic exception.
Alderaan delenda est
#9
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Posted 2009-November-09, 00:25
If partner doesn't know we have a 10 card fit, then I "fake" the Q. It hasn't brought up any problems so far... If he knows we have 10 trumps, then it's better not to lie, so he can better place the HCP.
If you want to live on the edge, you can show the Q if you have 9 trumps and the J. I only have experiences with this from many years ago, but they were all bad!
If you want to live on the edge, you can show the Q if you have 9 trumps and the J. I only have experiences with this from many years ago, but they were all bad!
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#10
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Posted 2009-November-09, 07:34
It can also be bad to show the queen when you don't have it when hearts are the agreed suit - partner may have one keycard and the trump queen.
#11
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Posted 2009-November-10, 01:34
MickyB, on Nov 9 2009, 02:34 PM, said:
It can also be bad to show the queen when you don't have it when hearts are the agreed suit - partner may have one keycard and the trump queen.
Not playing Kickback RKC
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