[georgeac]

Scoring: IMP

---

fun hand, just curious how others might bid this. my p was a intermediate random in MBC that profile said "no gerber no transfers".

i open 2♣ as i think most would, p responds 2♥, what do u think p has and what do u bid now?

edit: hidden below what i bid and what p has.

Spoiler

I bid 7nt over 2h. Pard has x♠ AQx♥ Jx♦ QJ1098xx♣

spades are 3-3 so it makes but in hindsight at IMPS i should just bid 6NT and hope that p has Ah

[aguahombre]

Nowadays people bid 2H/2c to show a very bad hand..saying nothing about hearts.

We still show a five-card suit with 2 of the top three honors with our 2H response.
With our style, this hand is over. If your Partner has shown a positive hand with a five card suit in hearts, then I guess 5Nt (GSF) would be a practical rebid.

Let the others tell you how they continue after an artificial 2H.

[pooltuna]

georgeac, on Oct 30 2009, 01:39 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

fun hand, just curious how others might bid this. my p was a intermediate random in MBC that profile said "no gerber no transfers".

i open 2♣ as i think most would, p responds 2♥, what do u think p has and what do u bid now?

edit: hidden below what i bid and what p has.

Spoiler

I bid 7nt over 2h. Pard has x♠ AQx♥ Jx♦ QJ1098xx♣

spades are 3-3 so it makes but in hindsight at IMPS i should just bid 6NT and hope that p has Ah

RKC assuming 2♥ is a positive response. Most players realize a positive response needs some suit quality as well

[pooltuna]

aguahombre, on Oct 30 2009, 02:03 AM, said:

Nowadays people bid 2H/2c to show a very bad hand..saying nothing about hearts.

We still show a five-card suit with 2 of the top three honors with our 2H response.
With our style, this hand is over. If your Partner has shown a positive hand with a five card suit in hearts, then I guess 5Nt (GSF) would be a practical rebid.

Let the others tell you how they continue after an artificial 2H.

7 NT may be a safer contract as you will have two possible suits to run if partner has the ♣K as well as the ♥AQ

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

2H should show some life and hearts, so you should have play
for 12 tricks.
The simplest bid is 6S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pooltuna]

P_Marlowe, on Oct 30 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Hi,

2H should show some life and hearts, so you should have play
for 12 tricks.
The simplest bid is 6S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

This is simple but too much chance it is an underbid

[P_Marlowe]

pooltuna, on Oct 30 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Oct 30 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Hi,

2H should show some life and hearts, so you should have play
for 12 tricks.
The simplest bid is 6S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

This is simple but too much chance it is an underbid

Maybe, maybe not.

As it is after a club lead, even 6NT would need spades 3-3,
and p has a nearly normal 2H response.
He has only 4 hearts, so ...,

In the end 6S is a contract, which will ensure that you go plus,
and under the given circumstances, that is what I try to achieve
going plus, taking the money I can take without too much risk.

Of course, if ou want to investigate 7, than your best chance is
to bid 3H instead of ???, which p wont pass.
And after that, you can bid 4NT as RKCB for hearts, and if you like,
you can bid 5NT asking for kings.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

aguahombre, on Oct 30 2009, 02:03 AM, said:

Nowadays people bid 2H/2c to show a very bad hand..saying nothing about hearts.

We still show a five-card suit with 2 of the top three honors with our 2H response.
With our style, this hand is over. If your Partner has shown a positive hand with a five card suit in hearts, then I guess 5Nt (GSF) would be a practical rebid.

Let the others tell you how they continue after an artificial 2H.

you have read, that there was a line in partners profile
stating "no gerber, no transfer"?

Just askking, becuase you seem to assume that everyone is
playing 5NT as GSF, which I dont play even in my regular
partnership, and upto now, we did not miss it.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pooltuna]

P_Marlowe, on Oct 30 2009, 09:29 AM, said:

pooltuna, on Oct 30 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Oct 30 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Hi,

2H should show some life and hearts, so you should have play
for 12 tricks.
The simplest bid is 6S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

This is simple but too much chance it is an underbid

Maybe, maybe not.

As it is after a club lead, even 6NT would need spades 3-3,
and p has a nearly normal 2H response.
He has only 4 hearts, so ...,

Quote

this is not a normal 2♥ response

In the end 6S is a contract, which will ensure that you go plus,
and under the given circumstances, that is what I try to achieve
going plus, taking the money I can take without too much risk.

Quote

A good objective and one I go for often but I expect partner's minimum ♥ holding to be QJ9xx with AQxxx more likely so you need to do some checking plus 6♥ may play better than 6♠

Of course, if ou want to investigate 7, than your best chance is
to bid 3H instead of ???, which p wont pass.
And after that, you can bid 4NT as RKCB for hearts, and if you like,
you can bid 5NT asking for kings.

Quote

I would think a direct 4NT would be RKC for ♥ and since he can have only one a simple Q check is possible

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Codo]

1. You need to discuss what 2 Heart shows. For me this is a second negative.

2. You should have a way to use the space between 2 Heart and 7 NT, so that you can find out a lot. Being good in guessing is one way to win at bridge, but the better way is to know without needing to guess.

3. 7 NT is a lousy contract, as is 6 NT often after a club lead. Okay, not this time, because partner has enough stuff in clubs, but there is no gurantee that he will have that next time too.

[gwnn]

why is everybody jumping around???

For goodness' sake just bid 2♠! it's forcing.

edit: except Codo

[HeavyDluxe]

Non-expert, former BILie here.

I play quite a few hands opposite random, pick-up BBOers. When I see 'no transfers, no gerber, etc', I tend to politely find another table. It's been my experience that it's very hard to infer much of anything 'systematically' from one of their bids, and there's never anything coming by way of intelligible leads/signals on defense.

That said, I would read 2♣-2♥ from one of these kinds of pard to show a hand with some values and ♥s. Therefore, I'd probably do something like you did - blast to some sort of slam (likely in ♠/NT) and wing it. As Marlowe said, assuming anything more elegant will be understood is a big assumption.

It seems most better B/I players on BBO today play 2♣-2♥ as a bust hand for responder. Maybe that's what most of the BIL Mentors like? I personally prefer a cheapest rebid=second negative approach.

[Phil]

Its so hard to field these potential misunderstandings. 2♥ without discussion can be

1. A bust
2. Positive with a good suit
3. Positive, but not promising a good suit

I would start with 2♠. This better be forcing across from any of these meanings, and there's a good chance I'll get a heart rebid if its a positive.

Much easier to use a pre-loaded card isn't it?

[miguelm]

I rarely write in BBO Forum, although I have been an interested reader... but I have to say I am amazed...

What exactly is lost by bidding 2S...?
It is kind of funny really, to witness so many discussions about the importance of saving bidding space to make the most of it, only to find 6S can be the right bid after 2C - 2H (whatever 2H means).

[HeavyDluxe]

Phil, on Oct 30 2009, 10:43 AM, said:

Much easier to use a pre-loaded card isn't it?

May solve some problems and create others... The other night, I was playing some hands in the relaxed room with a decent pard. We agreed to play 2/1 with a list of bolt-on gadgets. Opponents (both of whom were 'basic bridge, no transfer' profiles) LOLed and asked what they heck all that stuff was about...

Being polite (or, at least, trying to be), I alerted conventional bids in plain English. After two boards, I began receiving irate private chats from LHO stating that I was 'cheating', deliberately insulting her intelligence, and trying to distract her by posting all that stuff.

miguelm, on Oct 30 2009, 11:00 AM, said:

What exactly is lost by bidding 2S...?

Sadly, in the OP's situation, I think 2♠ risks garnering a pass from partner. If I trusted partner, 2♠ (forcing) is absolutely the right call. No need to rush.


*Note that I'm not trying to be 'down' on partners who are like this. I've enjoyed some fun, 'social' hands with many of them.

[miguelm]

I risk a Pass...???

Which part of the "Game Forcing Opener" am I missing..?

[georgeac]

Thanks for all the replies. Something else I found interesting about this hand were the people in 6nt only made 6nt and none made 6nt+1. Most were getting a club lead, playing to the A♥ and just playing the Q♣.

[manudude03]

georgeac, on Oct 30 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

Thanks for all the replies. Something else I found interesting about this hand were the people in 6nt only made 6nt and none made 6nt+1. Most were getting a club lead, playing to the A♥ and just playing the Q♣.

That's not surprising really. At IMPs you don't want to needlessly risk going down. With the hands the way they are, club ace heart ace club Queen is a lock. Playing on spades goes down when someone has Jxxx(+) and the club K when a club is led.

[pirate22]

2 spades is forcing, pard will explain his hand, by rebidding hts then u must raise hts or bic cl if your pard does not play transfers or gerber--would his 2hts mean zero-i think not--he would use 2 diamonds

[kartyavar]

The 2H reply means to us 8p or over and at least a 5 card H (under 8p = 2D)
Opener SHOULD inquire by Blackwood for responder's ACE. How else and when would you have a chance to bid 7? In the case of denial bid 6S ;)