[ONEferBRID]

My thoughts, and from what I know about Opener's DBL here, afirms Ken's definition that the Re-Negative Double is by Opener AFTER Responder has made a Negative DBL.
For the given auction:

1C - 1S - neg X( showing ♥) - 2S
??
re-neg X = denies 4♥ but suggests 3♥
3H = competitive, 4♥ support
4H = competitive, 4♥ support

( good/bad 2NT is in play here for the 3C/3D bids and probably
the 3H bid )
3S! would be a stop-ask

Partner most likely has ♠ shortage and with your ♦ shortage, game looks like a good bet.
You might even entertain a 4♦! jump-reverse splinter.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Re the following auction ( Ken's example at the end):

1m - (1 or 2om ) - neg X - ( 3om )
??
re-neg X = both majors
3M = competitive, denies 4 cards oM )

[Phil]

gnasher, on Oct 25 2009, 05:32 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Oct 25 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

It does work, if the 2NT bid shows a heart fit (good or bad, ur choice).

I don't usually quibble about terminology, and I know that nomenclature varies across the world, but I've never heard anyone use the term "good-bad 2NT" to mean a 2NT bid that shows a raise. It's possible that that's what Phil meant, but I rather doubt it.

Also, in the first line of the post of mine that you quoted you'll find the sentence "I use 2NT by opener as a good 3♥ bid", so I'm not quite sure who you think you're disagreeing with.

That's correct.

However, I do find it rather restrictive to play 2N as specifically a heart raise. I don't like the idea of getting shut out with an opener that wants to compete with a club suit and LHO doesn't always re-raise.

If I opened 1♦, then I'd be shutting out two other strains in order to show a good heart hand with 2N.

[gnasher]

Phil, on Oct 26 2009, 04:11 PM, said:

However, I do find it rather restrictive to play 2N as specifically a heart raise. I don't like the idea of getting shut out with an opener that wants to compete with a club suit and LHO doesn't always re-raise.

So bid 3♣ with the competitive hand, and accept that if you have a good hand with clubs you'll have to do something imperfect.

[aguahombre]

gnasher, on Oct 26 2009, 11:02 AM, said:

Phil, on Oct 26 2009, 04:11 PM, said:

However, I do find it rather restrictive to play 2N as specifically a heart raise. I don't like the idea of getting shut out with an opener that wants to compete with a club suit and LHO doesn't always re-raise.

So bid 3♣ with the competitive hand, and accept that if you have a good hand with clubs you'll have to do something imperfect.

like 3s

[gnasher]

jmcw, on Oct 26 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

Thanks for the posts to date. Is there a consensus here?

No, I wouldn't say that there is.

Quote

DBL = Solid opener likely 3 card support
2NT = Minimum or Good opening with 4 card support
3♥= Solid opener with 4 card support

Did I get it right?
If so, 2NT does not solve the problem with this hand. Responder will sign off in 3♥ fearing the minimum raise.

Splitting it three ways is quite sensible. If you do that, the strongest meaning has to be a hand that will bid again, so you should use 2NT as either a minimum or a game-force.

With this hand I'd still want to be in game, but if you think it's too weak for that you should show the middle range.

[pirate22]

negative x's when partner opens 1 any opps come in as given original hand.

try this I play and split up the negative x to give pard a combined point count of our hands

so 1cl-1sp x now = 8-11 points-any shape
1n/t now=12-14 with stop
2sp now =12-14 no stop
2n/t now = 15 points (can have stop/no stop(await pards rebid)
same applies if pard opens 1d(but i play min 4 card suit)
" " " " 1h or 1sp and opps come in 2 minor or 1sp over pards 1ht.

at least partner who opens say 11/12/13/14/15 points,knows the combined point count,of our hands
Small point 1cl-1sp 2cl/2d/2ht/2sp shows less than 8 points and is competing

regards

[nigel_k]

Dunno if this is standard but I would treat the negative double as just showing hearts and would bid the same as after 1♣-(P)-1♥-(2♠), not using any special treatment due to the negative double. With four card 'support' I would always raise not double.

If the negative double might not have hearts we are talking about a completely different problem so we need to know which it is. Anyway in that case I would still bid hearts as a 4-3 looks better than NT.

[skjaeran]

I'd just bid game. It might be a slight overbid, but so be it. Where I play, I'd expect the majority of the field to bid game.

[pirate22]

having opened 1cl and opps come in 1sp what does pards x mean ? lets presume values/or maybe a ht suit--------using my form of negative x, it would show 8-11 points any shape-now 2 spades comes in---what does the 1cl know?that the partnership has min 22/25 points,so what is our game in n/t or a suit contract,to show my pard i have a good opener i bid ,now x(regenerative x)if less than 14 i bid 3 hts and if pard now bids 3n/t, he has spade stop and probably not a ht suit,if this not the case he will bid 4 hts-and your dcision now is pass---may go 1 off but nothing lost,