[Phil]

I'm directing my club game today and I like to kibitz.

If I see an irregularity, what are my obligations? Should I wait for the players to call me?

I'm not talking about penalty cards and revokes; I'm referring to things like UI.

Thanks.

[Echognome]

Generally a bad idea to kibitz while directing. If you see any irregularity as a director, your duty is to take action. Instead, why don't you work on our system notes...

[Phil]

Echognome, on Oct 23 2009, 03:59 PM, said:

Generally a bad idea to kibitz while directing. If you see any irregularity as a director, your duty is to take action. Instead, why don't you work on our system notes...

Hehe.

I wonder who youre billing the time for this blog post to

[Chris3875]

I was in a similar situation recently where I saw something, and one of the players "looked" at me but didn't say anything. I asked a senior director about it later and he told me that I needed to wait until I was called before taking any action.

[Sadie3]

As a Kibber you can say nothing. You must wait until one of the players makes it official. From this point on, I am not positive how to proceed because I am not sure you may use what you observed before officially acting.

[duschek]

Chris3875, on Oct 23 2009, 04:05 PM, said:

I was in a similar situation recently where I saw something, and one of the players "looked" at me but didn't say anything. I asked a senior director about it later and he told me that I needed to wait until I was called before taking any action.

I agree, and this is also how TDs work at WBF and EBL events. If they happen to pass by a table when an irregularity occurs, they do not intervene without a player having asked for it.

Below the international level, your story illustrates the problem with kibitzing while directing. Players are often unsure whether they should call the TD. In this case, the player looked at you and (wrongly) interpreted your (appropriate) passivity to the effect that calling the TD would not change anything.

[blackshoe]

The phrase "in any manner" in Law 81C3 seems to give the TD no choice but to rectify an irregularity of which he becomes aware while kibitzing. It seems to me that advice, however well intentioned, to ignore such an irregularity unless an opponent specifically asks for a ruling is contrary to law. Far better not to put oneself in that position in the first place.

Edit: Sadie is correct, it's 81C3.

This post has been edited by blackshoe: 2009-October-23, 17:05

[Sadie3]

It is 81C3 (ACBL 2008)in my law book and the issue is : Are you a director when you are kibitzing? I was told that you were not. Thank you for your take on this. But as soon as you don your official hat, you must act. So in this interpretation, walking by a table would constitute 'official' but sitting at a table would not be. I can understand and relate to 'not seeing' when walking by a table as well.

[blackshoe]

I don't think you can take off your TD hat during a session you're working. Nothing in law suggests it, anyway.

[LH2650]

You follow the dictates of Mike Flader in the Chicago Nationals bulletin #3 (P13).

[blackshoe]

Yeah? Who put him in charge?

All due respect to Mr. Flader, but he isn't always right.

[jdonn]

My take is if you are kibitzing you are not functioning as a director. I agree it's open to interpretation, so it would be hard pressed to say either opinion is "wrong".

[peachy]

Find something else that you like to do instead of kibitzing when you are not actively performing TD duties such as entering scores or giving rulings etc. This will solve the problem of the dual role, and also be more fair to all players. Why should one table have the benefit - or maybe disadvantage, hehe - of having a "resident TD" there.

[blackshoe]

Yeah, Peachy, that's what I'm talkin' 'bout.

If you are hired to direct a game, and you are "not functioning as a director", then you aren't doing the job for which you were hired. Not very professional, IMO.

[jdonn]

I argue you are never 'functioning as a director' unless they call you, or you are performing some official duty like entering scores. How is kibitzing a bridge table or playing solitaire on your computer (or standing around doing nothing) any different in that regard, as long as you are able to quickly respond to any director calls and keep the game moving?

It's nice to say "find something to do" but there isn't always magically something to do!

[Elianna]

jdonn, on Oct 23 2009, 10:22 PM, said:

I argue you are never 'functioning as a director' unless they call you, or you are performing some official duty like entering scores. How is kibitzing a bridge table or playing solitaire on your computer (or standing around doing nothing) any different in that regard, as long as you are able to quickly respond to any director calls and keep the game moving?

It's nice to say "find something to do" but there isn't always magically something to do!

He could learn to knit!

[jdonn]

Elianna, on Oct 24 2009, 01:37 AM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 23 2009, 10:22 PM, said:

I argue you are never 'functioning as a director' unless they call you, or you are performing some official duty like entering scores. How is kibitzing a bridge table or playing solitaire on your computer (or standing around doing nothing) any different in that regard, as long as you are able to quickly respond to any director calls and keep the game moving?

It's nice to say "find something to do" but there isn't always magically something to do!

He could learn to knit!

That's no solution, it doesn't stop him from kibitzing at the same time.

[pran]

jdonn, on Oct 24 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Elianna, on Oct 24 2009, 01:37 AM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 23 2009, 10:22 PM, said:

I argue you are never 'functioning as a director' unless they call you, or you are performing some official duty like entering scores. How is kibitzing a bridge table or playing solitaire on your computer (or standing around doing nothing) any different in that regard, as long as you are able to quickly respond to any director calls and keep the game moving?

It's nice to say "find something to do" but there isn't always magically something to do!

He could learn to knit!

That's no solution, it doesn't stop him from kibitzing at the same time.

Sure it would!

Learning to knit takes such concentration that he cannot think of anything else!

The only persons I know about who can knit while simultaneously attending to other tasks are women experienced in knitting

regards Sven

[gordontd]

John Maddog Probst used to knit while directing, until he had his stroke. He's now a lot better and getting out and about - he even played in a novice duplicate a couple of weeks ago, but I think it'll be some time before his sight is good enough to knit again.

[pran]

gordontd, on Oct 24 2009, 11:35 AM, said:

John Maddog Probst used to knit while directing, until he had his stroke. He's now a lot better and getting out and about - he even played in a novice duplicate a couple of weeks ago, but I think it'll be some time before his sight is good enough to knit again.

OK, that is one male in addition to those women I had in mind.

And BTW, although I do not know John, this is an option for me to ask you forward my regards and get well message.

regards Sven