[DJNeill]

Hi all,

Imps, Both, mini-tourney

Pd opens 1N 14-16, you pass with

♠AT3 ♥-- ♦QJT53 ♣T7642

because you have no way to show both minors. LHO balances with a natural 2♥, back to you.

Double (takeout), 2N (minors), or what?

Thanks,
Dan

[helene_t]

2N

[dellache]

2NT.

[Fluffy]

agree with helene

[kenrexford]

What -- I want to play in spades if partner has five of them? If partner has 5422 and opened 1NT?

2NT for me, too.

[Jlall]

You don't wanna double with a void, partner might pass. 2N.

[jdonn]

This is one of the few times I'd do something different at mps. I'd probably double since I really don't want to miss spades, which could easily make 3 when a minor makes 4. At imps 2NT stands out since it will always be an 8 card or better fit.

[kenrexford]

Actually, the more I think about it, I'm not so sure that 2NT is enough.

I mean, sure -- partner likely has wasted values in hearts. But, this is a fairly strong hand. I don't need much for a minor game to make.

So, the "other benefit" to a 2NT call is trhat the auction may be far from over.

1NT-P-P-2♥
P-P-2NT-P-
3♦-3♥-3♠?

Something like that might well make sense.

[Phil]

kenrexford, on Oct 26 2009, 03:58 PM, said:

Actually, the more I think about it, I'm not so sure that 2NT is enough.

I mean, sure -- partner likely has wasted values in hearts. But, this is a fairly strong hand. I don't need much for a minor game to make.

So, the "other benefit" to a 2NT call is trhat the auction may be far from over.

1NT-P-P-2♥
P-P-2NT-P-
3♦-3♥-3♠?

Something like that might well make sense.

I would expect this and I would bid it like Ken.

[Jlall]

jdonn, on Oct 26 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

This is one of the few times I'd do something different at mps. I'd probably double since I really don't want to miss spades, which could easily make 3 when a minor makes 4. At imps 2NT stands out since it will always be an 8 card or better fit.

By miss spades do you mean a 4-3 or a 5-3? I think a 5-3 is unlikely because then they have 10 hearts at least, and partner might have bid 2S directly over 2H.

If you mean 4-3 then I think a 4-3 spade fit is not going to play great on this hand. I mean I guess our line will just be to scramble some tricks and hope to make 110, but I think 3 of a minor will often make 110 or 130 and beat 2S anyways.

[jdonn]

I meant a 4-3 and I still think I'm baller and I'm going to make 140 on it a lot.

[Jlall]

I also think you might be underestimating how often partner is passing our double.

If partner has 3 hearts they will probably bid 3H no matter what we do. In that case we are better placed if we had balanced with 2N than with X.

If partner has 4 hearts, he is probably passing the double a lot. When he does I don't think we beat them nearly enough to make it worth it.

If he has 4 spades and 4 hearts he will probably bid 2S rather than pass most of the time though, but he might go for blood red at MP.

But I think of the relevant cases (ie they're not competing to 3H so we get to play 2S or 3m) partner will pass the double a lot which is not something we want. And as I said earlier I'm not convinced that 2S will be better than 3m usually. In fact I think it will be worse in general.

*Made IMP reference, forgot we were talking about MP lol. Anyways at MP partner will pass 2H X a lot more than at imps, so that's still not great for us. Sure we get a few 200s but I think we get more zeroes when they make in the process.

This post has been edited by Jlall: 2009-October-26, 15:45