[gwnn]

partner guarantees 4 cards here:

1♦-1♥
2♥-?

and I think he denies 4432 but of course its not so important. so:

Jxx
AKxx
Kx
98xx

vulnerable IMPs. natural game tries.

[Jlall]

I think bidding 4H is a bit too much, partner knows we are vul at imps also. I would bid 2S and see what happened.

The biggest downside of the game try vs bidding game is we may help them lead/defend. Maybe this is enough reason to just blast it. Wouldn't really fault a 4H bid at all tbh.

[Jlall]

Another problem with game trying is that we don't really have a good one available. 2S/2N/3C/3D are all not very descriptive, and may cause partner to misevaluate. I am probably not making a great case for my choice

[the hog]

3H. invitational.

[flytoox]

I will just try my luck with 4H. My cards are really good and it is hard to get enough information for makign wise decision. SO 4H is practical.

[inquiry]

count zars, add fit points, bid game "confidently"... ESPECIALLY vul at imps as stated. I can't imagine not bidding game here.

[jdonn]

I bid 3♥, no game try is accurate and this is a lot of losers to bid game. Partner isn't blind, he knows it is vul at imps. If he passes I would not be surprised to go down in 3.

[zheddh]

Jlall, on Oct 22 2009, 06:52 PM, said:

Another problem with game trying is that we don't really have a good one available. 2S/2N/3C/3D are all not very descriptive, and may cause partner to misevaluate. I am probably not making a great case for my choice

I am sorry if this is a noob question but what does an ideal game try hand look like?

[Jlall]

zheddh, on Oct 22 2009, 11:45 PM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 22 2009, 06:52 PM, said:

Another problem with game trying is that we don't really have a good one available. 2S/2N/3C/3D are all not very descriptive, and may cause partner to misevaluate. I am probably not making a great case for my choice

I am sorry if this is a noob question but what does an ideal game try hand look like?

I would say something like KJxx or whatever in your game try suit would be ideal. Generally you don't want to have everything or nothing in the suit you game try in, you want partner to evaluate an honor upwards (like Qxx).

[aguahombre]

i guess "natural game tries" meant 3H is a game try, I didn't think that was true, but if so, I guess this would be the time to use it.

[helene_t]

Maybe 3♦ is the most descriptive game try, we want p to sign off with Jxxx in diamonds.

[shevek]

gwnn, on Oct 22 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

partner guarantees 4 cards here:

1♦-1♥
2♥-?

and I think he denies 4432 but of course its not so important.

Everyone else seemed to understannd this but I don't.

[aguahombre]

shevek, on Oct 23 2009, 07:18 AM, said:

gwnn, on Oct 22 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

partner guarantees 4 cards here:

1♦-1♥
2♥-?

and I think he denies 4432 but of course its not so important.

Everyone else seemed to understannd this but I don't.

or chose to ignore it

[bid_em_up]

shevek, on Oct 23 2009, 07:18 AM, said:

gwnn, on Oct 22 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

partner guarantees 4 cards here:

1♦-1♥
2♥-?

and I think he denies 4432 but of course its not so important.

Everyone else seemed to understannd this but I don't.

I take it to mean that partner cannot be 4-4-3-2, as he would open 1♣ (in their system) on that holding, and not 1♦.

edit: Later, it occured to me that it could also mean that partner would have opened a weak NT with that pattern, so he should be unbalanced.

Maybe he should tell us which it is.

[mike777]

gwnn, on Oct 22 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

partner guarantees 4 cards here:

1♦-1♥
2♥-?

and I think he denies 4432 but of course its not so important. so:

Jxx
AKxx
Kx
98xx

vulnerable IMPs. natural game tries.

3d now.

[Jlall]

aguahombre, on Oct 23 2009, 09:44 AM, said:

shevek, on Oct 23 2009, 07:18 AM, said:

gwnn, on Oct 22 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

partner guarantees 4 cards here:

1♦-1♥
2♥-?

and I think he denies 4432 but of course its not so important.

Everyone else seemed to understannd this but I don't.

or chose to ignore it

I took it to mean partner would not open 1D with 4432 shape. What is unclear about it?

[neilkaz]

jdonn, on Oct 22 2009, 10:13 PM, said:

I bid 3♥, no game try is accurate and this is a lot of losers to bid game. Partner isn't blind, he knows it is vul at imps. If he passes I would not be surprised to go down in 3.

I agree with Josh here. Mark me down for 3♥ also.

[Fluffy]

I play 3♥ as preemptive, though this was more or less standard lol.

I like 2♠ as the most descriptive bid, it also frees space for partner to show anything wich we will gladly raise to game.

3♣ has potential as lead-missdirecting as well

[the hog]

Fluffy, on Oct 24 2009, 08:04 AM, said:

I play 3♥ as preemptive, though this was more or less standard lol.

I like 2♠ as the most descriptive bid, it also frees space for partner to show anything wich we will gladly raise to game.

3♣ has potential as lead-missdirecting as well

Some players, and not all by a long way, play 1x 2x 3x as a shutout.
This is a totally different sequence.

[shevek]

Jlall, on Oct 23 2009, 03:33 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Oct 23 2009, 09:44 AM, said:

shevek, on Oct 23 2009, 07:18 AM, said:

gwnn, on Oct 22 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

partner guarantees 4 cards here:

1♦-1♥
2♥-?

and I think he denies 4432 but of course its not so important.

Everyone else seemed to understannd this but I don't.

or chose to ignore it

I took it to mean partner would not open 1D with 4432 shape. What is unclear about it?

i c

i'm used to "4432" as any 4432 combination.
4-4-3-2 is a permutation.

Some these days like to open 1♣ on something like 3-4-4-2 to make full use of transfer responses and prevent an unwelcome 2/1.
In that regime, 1D is presumubly 5+ or unbalanced.