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3H-3S-P

#1 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 17:33

Scoring: IMP

(3♥)-3♠-(P)-?


What do you bid now and what's your plan?
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#2 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 17:52

4♣. What am I missing here?
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#3 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 18:42

lol yeah agree with phil, what is this...
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#4 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 19:26

So what next if P bids 4♦, 4♥, 4♠ or 5♣?
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#5 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 19:31

Over 4D bid 4S, over 4H bid 4N (assuming 4H=good hand for clubs, some people on this forum probably play 4H=choice of games), over 4S pass over 5C pass.
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#6 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 20:43

nigel_k, on Oct 21 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(3♥)-3♠-(P)-?


What do you bid now and what's your plan?

still late here but my plan is to raise to 4♠ and see if partner is moving
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#7 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 20:48

Why should partner move over 4S? You don't need anywhere near this much to raise Spades.
I would bid 4C here.
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#8 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-October-22, 04:20

I am raising 5♣ to 6. Using RKCB over 4♠. Only 4♦ will slow me down.
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#9 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-October-22, 04:31

pooltuna, on Oct 22 2009, 03:43 AM, said:

still late here but my plan is to raise to 4♠ and see if partner is moving

Moving on after 4♠ would be the Futile Willy syndrome from Simon's book: Making a nonforcing 3♠ bid and then bid on after partner's game bid. It leaves you no option to end in 4♠, with such a partner you have to chose between 3♠ and 5♠.

I have seen GIB make that mistake, though. I think he uses a rule for the 3♠ bid and simulations for the decision to bid on after 4♠. Presumably the hand evaluated (much) better during the simulations than when evaluated against the rule.
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-October-22, 04:35

Fluffy, on Oct 22 2009, 11:20 AM, said:

I am raising 5♣ to 6. Using RKCB over 4♠. Only 4♦ will slow me down.

Surely if you're going to move over 4♠ it should be with 5♠? 4NT could lead to a ridiculous result opposite AKQxxx xx QJx xx.

It's more of a guess if partner raises to 5♣. He probably shouldn't cue-bid with a minimum like AKxxxx x Qxx Qxx.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-October-22, 06:24

yes, you are right, 5♠ is better, its kinda hard that we miss 2 keycards.
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#12 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2009-October-22, 07:08

**** WARNING NOOB QUESTION AHEAD ****

OK, so apparently everyone considers 4♣ forcing.

But what if you hold something like:

♠x
♥xx
♦xxx
♣KQJxxxx

Do you pass 3♠?
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#13 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2009-October-22, 10:28

billw55, on Oct 22 2009, 02:08 PM, said:

**** WARNING NOOB QUESTION AHEAD ****

OK, so apparently everyone considers 4♣ forcing.

But what if you hold something like:

♠x
♥xx
♦xxx
♣KQJxxxx

Do you pass 3♠?

Yes

Generally when the opponents have pre-empted and you are trying to have a constructive auction, you cannot play new suits as 'contract correction', you have to play them as natural and forcing.

Bidding 4C as weak with long clubs may get you from a non-making 3S contract to a making 4C contract, but it's more likely that both aren't making.

Bidding 4C as natural and forcing allows you to find the best game and sometimes to get to slam. The benefit is so much greater that you have to play it this way.
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#14 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-October-24, 02:08

billw55, on Oct 22 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

**** WARNING NOOB QUESTION AHEAD ****

OK, so apparently everyone considers 4♣ forcing.

But what if you hold something like:

♠x
♥xx
♦xxx
♣KQJxxxx

Do you pass 3♠?

Sure.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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