[Fluffy]

♠1064
♥KJ10753
♦63
♣Q7


Dealer west, nobody vul


(1♠)-X-(1NT)-??

[xcurt]

3H, since I'm going to have to bid it anyway over 2S at these colors.

[Codo]

3 Heart sounds so preemptive.
I would like to invite to 4 Heart, but I am not able to do.

So I would simply bid it.

[dellache]

My first thought is to bid 3♥ at these colours.
The problem is that my pard rates to be 2344 or 23(53) with around 15HCP, game will be reached and I'm not that sure I want to be in game with this garbage "flat" hand.

Actually, I would have taken the slow road : 2♥, then 3♥ if given the opportunity . I want to know more about the hand, and I very much doubt that the sequence will end in 2♥.

[andy_h]

2♥.

[gnasher]

3♥ is invitational, and that's what I bid. Give partner a random 12-count with a doubleton spade, and it's plainly not worth more.

It's wrong to play 3♥ as preemptive here, because 1NT is a common and fairly safe psyche.

[Jlall]

I would just bid 2H, partner seems very unlikely to have a stiff spade. 3H is def inv here.

[jdonn]

I vote 3♥, can't get myself to do less.

[pooltuna]

Fluffy, on Oct 9 2009, 06:02 PM, said:

♠1064
♥KJ10753
♦63
♣Q7


Dealer west, nobody vul


(1♠)-X-(1NT)-??

2♥ is enough for me at this point

[Phil]

I'll bid 3. Invitational, although on paper I'm not worth that.

It might be a slight overbid, but it shuts out LHO's 2♠ that he's probably dying to make. I would also expect most of their finesses to work here.

4 sounds desperate.

[Fluffy]

thx for the answers, I bid a freadful 4♥ willing to find a singleton spade from partner, wich is a stupid move on the current bidding.

Partner had

♠Ax
♥A9xx
♦KJxx
♣Kxx


And is gonna raise your 3 hearts to a making 4 (guessing diamonds is a simple matter of counting after a low spade lead).


2♥ will gather 2♠ from LHO and at least me I don't have the methods to invite with partner's hand.

[Jlall]

Fluffy, on Oct 11 2009, 09:43 AM, said:

2♥ will gather 2♠ from LHO and at least me I don't have the methods to invite with partner's hand.

3H is an invite in my view.

I saw a hand on this forum recently where someone bid 3H in the same auction and they passed with a great 9 count or something so maybe it's nonstandard to play 3H as showing extras in this auction.

I have always taught my students that if you raise to the 2 level in comp it is just competitive, but if you raise to the 3 level it's invitational because there is not another way to invite and you should just be passing with minimum hands anyways since partner is still alive and can reopen X or 3m or 3M.

Since this is hearts over spades you can probably get away with Xing 2S and correcting 3m to 3H since there's so much room but sometimes they bid 3S before you get that chance, so I'd rather just keep X as showing extra values with 3 hearts.

[gnasher]

After

1♠ dbl 1NT 2♥
2♠

I think 2NT should be an invitational heart raise. You don't pick up enough balanced 19-counts to reserve this bid for them, and in any case that hand-type can double or bid 3NT.

Edit: alternatively, you could just bid game with the invitational hands. They'll often have a decision to make about whether to save, so this may gain even when we aren't making anything. I'd rather do that than not have a competitive 3♥ bid.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2009-October-11, 10:17

[Jlall]

gnasher, on Oct 11 2009, 11:14 AM, said:

Edit: alternatively, you could just bid game with the invitational hands. They'll often have a decision to make about whether to save, so this may gain even when we aren't making anything. I'd rather do that than not have a competitive 3♥ bid.

I don't think they'll ever have a decision to save unless the 1N bidder has a psyche with a spade fit and now has a save decision...maybe that's what you meant? If they haven't psyched I don't think the guy who bid 2S will ever bid 4S now, and I don't think the 1N bidder with a doubleton spade can ever do so.

Also while I often like the idea of blasting a lot, I think the 2H bid here is a really wide ranging bid with like a good 5 to a bad 10 so it's tough.

I really like the 2N idea though. I still am not comfortable using lots of 2N bids in competition as raises and don't have good rules for it, but this one seems logical, and in general I think it is a good idea. I know the rest of the world is doing it so I might as well come around sooner or later.

Edit: I would also like to add that in 5 years I will read this thread and be like LOL I DIDN'T KNOW 2N WAS A GOOD RAISE WHAT A FISH.

[kgr]

Jlall, on Oct 11 2009, 06:22 PM, said:

Edit: I would also like to add that in 5 years I will read this thread and be like LOL I DIDN'T KNOW 2N WAS A GOOD RAISE WHAT A FISH.

You mean after?:
(1♠)-DBL-(1NT)-2♥
(2♠)-
2NT/3♥ are both fit, with 2NT stronger.
 
 
...what about?:
(1♠)-DBL-(1NT)-2NT
(Pass)-3♣/3♦-(Pass)-3♥
vs
(1♠)-DBL-(1NT)-3♥

[Jlall]

kgr, on Oct 11 2009, 11:44 AM, said:

...what about?:
(1♠)-DBL-(1NT)-2NT
(Pass)-3♣/3♦-(Pass)-3♥
vs
(1♠)-DBL-(1NT)-3♥

I would take 2N as minors. 2N then 3H, no idea, maybe 0355.

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Oct 11 2009, 05:22 PM, said:

I don't think they'll ever have a decision to save unless the 1N bidder has a psyche with a spade fit and now has a save decision

Yes, maybe hoping they'll save is optimistic.

Quote

I really like the 2N idea though. I still am not comfortable using lots of 2N bids in competition as raises and don't have good rules for it, but this one seems logical, and in general I think it is a good idea. I know the rest of the world is doing it so I might as well come around sooner or later.

There's another possible use for 2NT: something like a 13(54) 14-count. I'd want to bid with that, but double sounds like a balanced 18-count, and three of a minor is presumably a hand that was too strong to overcall.

Another option, as usual, is transfers: 2NT to clubs, 3♣ to diamonds, 3♦ as a good heart raise, 3♥ just competitive.