Lobowolf, on Nov 12 2009, 08:59 AM, said:
Winstonm, on Nov 11 2009, 09:26 PM, said:
Quote
This is quite a bold assumption - nothing has been found to prove my argument so those writings must be lost.
I think the argument isn't "nothing has been found to prove my argument, so those writings must be lost," but rather, the assertion is "a lot of stuff (writings) from 2,000 years ago almost certainly has been lost," which in turns undercuts the opposing argument, "no writings support your assertion, so it is inaccurate."
An interesting characterization of the quoted excerpt, though. If I were innocent or guilty, I'd want that sort of facility in my attorney.
I think you are flipping things around.
The original argument was not that lack of documentation would prove that Jesus didn't exist. The original argument was that Jesus did exist, because it was well documented by independent contemperary sources (e.g. Roman records). That sounds to me like a pretty strong argument.
But then the question came: What records and documents are you talking about?
Now, we are at the stage in the discussion where it is fairly clear that those records just aren't there. That doesn't disprove the assumption that Jesus existed. It only nullifies the original argumentation that Jesus existed because there were lots of records. What sounded like a pretty strong argument is reduced to... nothing. Nothing for and nothing against. While the fact that no writings were found may be a mild indication if these writings would have been expected, it is certainly no evidence that Jesus never existed.
But now, Phils argumentation takes a new, more fun, turn. He essentially says:
Jesus existed, because there were lots of contemporary records that show this. Okay, we have never found any of those records, but that just means that they were lost.
Based on that kind of reasoning, I can make a case that Little Red Ridinghood existed: We all know the story of her life (Grandma, cookies, wolf). There is even a birth certificate that shows that she existed. What are you saying? There is no birth certificate for Little Red Ridinghood?!? Well, err, then they must have lost it. Little Red Ridinghood existed because her -now lost- birth certificate said so.
I am just as lost as Little Red Ridinghood's birth certificate.
Rik