[mr1303]

On a normalish 2/1 auction to 3NT, how much would you need for a quantitive invite to 4NT?

Hand I held as an example

Scoring: IMP

---

Auction proceeded:

1S 2C
3C 3D
3NT

The problem as I saw it was that neither of us have had a chance to limit our hands here. Hypothetically, partner could still have something like:

AQxxx
AQx
x
QJxx

whereby slam is good, but obviously there are plenty of minimums whereby 3NT is the limit.

[andy_h]

Yes, that is one of the problems in a 2/1 auction especially when they are 16 opposite 16 or alike without a fit. However on this hand, I'm not particularly interested in inviting in NT because we have found a club fit. Partner doesn't even need that good of a hand (your example one) like AQxxx Ax xx Qxxx and if clubs and spades behave then 6♣ is good.

On your auction I would bid 4♠ over 3NT most likely suggesting HH in spades and an invite to slam. That way partner can judge whether to play in 4♠ on a 5-2 fit, 5♣, or a slam. I don't want to bid 4♦ as a 'cue' because that may be construed as a 5-6 shape nor do I want to bid 4♥ as that would suggest 1345 or 0346 inviting slam. So out of 4♣, 4♠ and 4NT I think 4♠ is good. I don't think it is "placing the contract" since with 3 card support I would've bid 3♠ over 3♣.

What would 3♦ over 2♣ by partner have been? If it's a splinter then partner's most likely shape is 5224 and 4♠ should be just as good or better contract than 4NT so I think if partner bids 4NT over 4♠ it's keycard. However, that's a violation to one of my meta agreements where if 3NT is bid to play then a follow up of 4NT is to play as well but in this case if opener has a min we can play in 4♠ or 5♣ giving up on 4NT.

[aguahombre]

andy_h, on Oct 3 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

On your auction I would bid 4♠ over 3NT most likely suggesting HH in spades and an invite to slam.

In some partnerhips your suggested sequence would show that you bid around heart shortness with a hand too strong to splinter (kjxx x kxx akxxx). You will end up in six spades on your actual hand, which might make, or 7 spades, which might not.
Back up a bit and have opener splinter 3D/2C, then a club slam becomes relatively easy to bid.

[andy_h]

aguahombre, on Oct 3 2009, 09:50 PM, said:

andy_h, on Oct 3 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

On your auction I would bid 4♠ over 3NT most likely suggesting HH in spades and an invite to slam.

In some partnerhips your suggested sequence would show that you bid around heart shortness with a hand too strong to splinter (kjxx x kxx akxxx). You will end up in six spades on your actual hand, which might make, or 7 spades, which might not.

If you read my 2nd paragraph, I mentioned the fact that if I had spade support I would have bid it immediately the round before.

In whoever's partnership that thinks to bid 2♣, 3♦, THEN 4♠ with KJxx x Kxx AKxxx (4 card support!!!) I would consider insane. Even if you change the spades and diamonds I don't understand why on earth you would not show spade support. If that is your/someone else's 'systemic' way of showing your suggested 4135 or 3145 hands, then I don't understand the need to play 2/1 as opposed to SAYC.

[pooltuna]

mr1303, on Oct 3 2009, 04:14 AM, said:

On a normalish 2/1 auction to 3NT, how much would you need for a quantitive invite to 4NT?

Hand I held as an example

Scoring: IMP

---

Auction proceeded:

1S 2C
3C 3D
3NT

The problem as I saw it was that neither of us have had a chance to limit our hands here. Hypothetically, partner could still have something like:

AQxxx
AQx
x
QJxx

whereby slam is good, but obviously there are plenty of minimums whereby 3NT is the limit.

the rules are straightforward. for a 6NT invite the total possible partnership assets must straddle 33HCP. So if a 15-17 1NT opener's partner holds 17 the total assets could be between 32 and 34, hence 4NT is the invite, with 15 the opener passes, with the other values he goes

[andy_h]

pooltuna, on Oct 4 2009, 12:01 AM, said:

So if a 15-17 1NT opener's partner holds 17 the total assets could be between 32 and 34, hence 4NT is the invite, with 15 the opener passes, with the other values he goes

O rly?