[campboy]

jdonn, on Oct 7 2009, 07:52 PM, said:

BTW now that I look, I know not every player is a world beater, but what in the world was east doing even raising a natural 2♥ bid? And we think it's the players who do that who will pass 3♥X here? Good grief...

Lol, I can't believe I failed to notice how bad the 3♥ bid was

[Vampyr]

jdonn, on Oct 7 2009, 07:52 PM, said:

BTW now that I look, I know not every player is a world beater, but what in the world was east doing even raising a natural 2♥ bid? And we think it's the players who do that who will pass 3♥X here? Good grief...

Was he raising, or making a super-accept and showing a small doubleton?

[jdonn]

Vampyr, on Oct 8 2009, 01:13 PM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 7 2009, 07:52 PM, said:

BTW now that I look, I know not every player is a world beater, but what in the world was east doing even raising a natural 2♥ bid? And we think it's the players who do that who will pass 3♥X here? Good grief...

Was he raising, or making a super-accept and showing a small doubleton?

Anyone who read the original post knows the answer...

[Mbodell]

jdonn, on Oct 7 2009, 10:46 AM, said:

awm, on Oct 7 2009, 12:27 PM, said:

Suppose that when west bid 2♥, east had announced "transfer" or that east had alerted and been asked about the call, and said "shows five or more spades."

Thus east obviously knows the meaning of the 2♥ bid. When he bids 3♥, how is west passing not a logical alternative? Certainly it may not be clear what 3♥ means, but:

(1) If east has hearts, west has three-card support and an ace and a singleton.
(2) If east has spades, he knows west has spades with him and will correct to 3♠. This will right-side the contract.

I think it's quite likely that after east's alert/explain of 2♥, west would pass 3♥X.

This type of reasoning always looks very logical. But I have seen probably dozens if not hundreds of misunderstandings about transfers in auctions like this. But how many times have I seen something like the auction given where 3♥ was natural? None? One? Even if 1NT was tactically bid on some hand with hearts he wouldn't jump in over 3♦ at that point, partly since he is off the hook, and partly since he would be worried his partner would misunderstand.

People just don't make bids like that in real life, and no one passes 3♥X playing for their partner to be doing that either. They know, for a fact, they have either had a transfer misunderstanding or partner is superaccepting in some way, and let's be honest partner can't be superaccepting, the opponents are trying to nail us and it would have to be a 55 point deck anyway. Passing 3♥X is not a possibility for west.

You don't need the bid to be natural for pass to be correct. If you heard partner alert and explain your bid as transfer to spades and then heard partner bid 3♥ and the opponents double it meaning you can pass and partner can act there are a number of possibilities:

1. Natural with good hearts and spade tolerance. Say 35(32). If this is the case you have a good dummy for hearts (ruff in the short hand, pull trump, run spades) and pass is reasonable, and certainly a LA.

2. It could be a super accept for spades. If this is the case then your pass lets partner declare and that is right siding the contract which is probably good, so pass is clearly a LA.

3. It could be a lead direct, partner competing to 3♠ but suggesting a ♥ lead. If this is the case passing right sides again so that is good and a LA.

4. It could be partner saying they don't have many lead values and "retransfering" back to you expecting spades to maybe play better from your side if you have tenaces. Given you don't have lead values and opponents have taken you off the hook you are safe to pass again as a LA.

5. Partner might have pulled the wrong bid and meant spades but pulled hearts. If this is the case 3♠ might be better by you, but if partner wakes up by the time it gets to them in the passout seat maybe they'd right side it.

6. It could be transfer confusion and hear you definitely want to bid 3♠ (and hope that partner doesn't take this as forward going in hearts, lol!).

Could there be players of this class who would pass this bid? Shouldn't we poll them to find out (giving them the auction complete with the 2♥ bid being alerted and explained as transfer) if pass is a LA and then figure out if the lack of the alert and explanation favors 3♠ over pass?

[jdonn]

Almost all your suggestions are utterly implausible. You are being way too creative for your own good. East just made one of the worst evaluation decisions that has ever been made by raising a 'natural' 2♥ bid on that hand. This partnership does not make subtle lead directing raises or bids implying tolerance in other suits or retransfers, nor is it likely they have ever even heard of such things. You are taking 'grasping at straws' to levels I have yet to previously witness.

To be clear,

Mbodell, on Oct 9 2009, 03:11 AM, said:

Could there be players of this class who would pass this bid?

Not just no, but hell no.

Quote

Shouldn't we poll them to find out (giving them the auction complete with the 2♥ bid being alerted and explained as transfer) if pass is a LA and then figure out if the lack of the alert and explanation favors 3♠ over pass?

You'd not only be wasting your time, you'd be more likely to confuse one of them with the situation into claiming an action they wouldn't actually take than you would be to find a player who would actually pass.

[skjaeran]

Looking at what happened so far, it must be absolutely clear that passing 3♥x isn't a logical alternative for west here.

Btw, I don't know any good players either, for whom 3♥ would be natural in this sequence. But I agree that pass is a LA for adv+ players.