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double fit?

#1 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2009-August-31, 22:46

Scoring: MP

(1♠) 2♠ (P) ?


Your bid and your reasoning please.
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#2 User is offline   georgeac 

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Posted 2009-August-31, 23:01

3h because i want to be in the 5 4 major suit fit.
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#3 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2009-August-31, 23:08

I bid 2NT, and if the minor is diamonds, 4h....if the other minor is clubs, I will bid 3H
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#4 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-August-31, 23:49

4H
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#5 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 00:04

4H. I have QJ and a 4 card trump suit and the CA. What more do I need?
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#6 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 00:20

after some evaluation, I agree with 4H
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#7 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 00:34

4h because i want to be in the 5 4 major suit fit.
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#8 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 00:44

Oh reasoning ...

I expect something like

♠ x
♥ AKxxx
♦ xx
♣ KQxxx

is pretty close to minimum for a vulnerable versus not 2♠. And partner could be better than this e.g. with diamonds !!!!

And even if slightly worse we will often have a play for game.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#9 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 01:15

4H, given partner bid at r/w it should be a decent hand.
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#10 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 01:16

4♥. Vul vs not partner should have a decent hand. 4 card support, all cards working.
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#11 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 05:51

Jlall, on Sep 1 2009, 12:49 AM, said:

4H

Ahhh, the transfer to 4♠
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#12 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 06:28

Jx, QJX, 97xxx, Ax

My first thought was 4♥ but decided 2N was the smarter way to bid it, if we had a ♦/♥ fit I'd be happy to compete to the 5/6 level. This hand was sent to me from a local tournament, what happened at the table was;

(1♠) 2♠ (P) 2N
(4♠) AP

Terrible board, partner held x AKxxxx Void Kxxxxx

Is 2N acceptable if I would bid 4/5♥ over any response or does it just complicate things unnecessarily?
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#13 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 06:47

If you have long diamonds, you could bid 2NT and then correct 3♣ to 3♦. So, IMO, it makes sense for 3♦ in these sequences to show invitational+ with support for the major. Whereas on this hand that course might not be the best course, if the idea is to hedge, this has some merit. Partner, with the actual hand, may well push to 5♥.

The problem with 2NT as the invitational ask is this very situation. Partner does not know if you bid 2NT because of interest or out of fear. 3♦ as a major raise with values allows partner in on the game.
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#14 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 06:47

4H we might make it.
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#15 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 06:51

mcphee, on Sep 1 2009, 05:47 AM, said:

4H we might make it.

double dummy? ;)
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#16 User is offline   cherdanno 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 07:18

jillybean, on Sep 1 2009, 07:28 AM, said:

Jx, QJX, 97xxx, Ax

My first thought was 4♥ but decided 2N was the smarter way to bid it, if we had a ♦/♥ fit I'd be happy to compete to the 5/6 level. This hand was sent to me from a local tournament, what happened at the table was;

(1♠) 2♠ (P) 2N
(4♠) AP

Terrible board, partner held x AKxxxx Void Kxxxxx

Is 2N acceptable if I would bid 4/5♥ over any response or does it just complicate things unnecessarily?

Kathryn - 2N will only help you to decide what to do over 4♠ if you FIRST hear partner's minor, THEN they bid 4♠. Against good opponents this will never happen (they either bid 4♠ right away, or they don't). Planning what to do over 4♠ is a good idea, but only if you can find a bid that helps immediately. Since we (all of us except Ken ;) ) don't have such a bid, just bidding 4♥ and hoping to get to play it is better.
Partner shouldn't pass out 4♠ with 6-6, but note that it would have been even easier for him to raise if we had bid 4♥.
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#17 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 07:33

cherdanno, on Sep 1 2009, 02:18 PM, said:

Planning what to do over 4♠ is a good idea, but only if you can find a bid that helps immediately. Since we (all of us except Ken ;) ) don't have such a bid, just bidding 4♥ and hoping to get to play it is better.

Maybe the right time to plan what to do over 4♠ is when filling out your convention card. This sort of hand is the reason that people specific two-suiters.
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#18 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 07:35

Agree with everything Arend said.
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#19 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 08:00

gnasher, on Sep 1 2009, 08:33 AM, said:

cherdanno, on Sep 1 2009, 02:18 PM, said:

Planning what to do over 4♠ is a good idea, but only if you can find a bid that helps immediately. Since we (all of us except Ken :) ) don't have such a bid, just bidding 4♥ and hoping to get to play it is better.

Maybe the right time to plan what to do over 4♠ is when filling out your convention card. This sort of hand is the reason that people specific two-suiters.

That often helps, but sometimes shape is not the entire story. When Overcaller's range can be wide, communication is always facilitated when there is a discourse as to strength at some point, by at least one of the partners.
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#20 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-September-02, 04:16

Partners second pass was clearly wrong.

Your 2 NT bid was wrong too. Of course this is nice if the opponents promise to be silent. But the opps have a spade fit. Even if partner is 3505, they have a fit. So it is madatory to show YOUR support as soon as possible. You have no time to make an educated guess over partners minor suit bid.

So 4 Heart had been right.
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