[paulg]

Scoring: XIMP

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This hand proved tricky to bid at the trials today, especially for those who rebid 3♣. Playing fairly standard methods, what auction would you suggest? (This was actually a trial for less experienced players, as we try to increase our (long-term) pool of players. This was the hand they wanted to discuss.)

From a play perspective, the most interesting contract was 6♣. How should you play the trump suit for a single loser?

Paul

[mike777]

1s=2h
3c=3d(artifical)
4d=4h(rkc for d)
5d=5h(grand try, specific k ask)
7d

[effervesce]

Play lines in 6C -

Only 4-2 and 3-3 layouts relevant, with a few 5-1 layouts which one could play for one loser.
1)Cash AK clubs, hoping for Hx either hand - loses on 12 3-3 and 4-2 layouts
2)Small to 9, small to J - loses to QT, QTx, and QTxx offside - loses 11 3-3 and 4-2 layouts
3)Cash A, run J, run 9 - loses to QTx and QTxx offside - loses 10 3-3 and 4-2 layouts, and actually can restrict club losers to one if clubs are Q - Txxxx or Txxxx - Q.
4) Run J, run 9 - loses to QT, QTx and QTxx offside (11 3-3 and 4-2 layouts), while picking up Qxxxx-T

Line 3 looks best (unless there's a diamond lead in which case I think the difference in lines is so small that line 1 would be best to avoid a ruff).
Have I missed something?

[gnasher]

effervesce, on Aug 31 2009, 04:02 AM, said:

Play lines in 6C -

Only 4-2 and 3-3 layouts relevant, with a few 5-1 layouts which one could play for one loser.
1)Cash AK clubs, hoping for Hx either hand - loses on 12 3-3 and 4-2 layouts
2)Small to 9, small to J - loses to QT, QTx, and QTxx offside - loses 11 3-3 and 4-2 layouts
3)Cash A, run J, run 9 - loses to QTx and QTxx offside - loses 10 3-3 and 4-2 layouts, and actually can restrict club losers to one if clubs are Q - Txxxx or Txxxx - Q.
4) Run J, run 9 - loses to QTx and QTxx offside (10 3-3 and 4-2 layouts), while picking up Qxxxx-T

Line 3 looks best (unless there's a diamond lead in which case I think the difference in lines is so small that line 1 would be best to avoid a ruff).
Have I missed something?

What about
5) Cash A, run J, cash K - loses to Qx and QTxx offside

That seems to lose to the same number of layouts as line 3, but the layouts it loses to are all 4-2 breaks, and less likely than 3-3 breaks.

[gwnn]

mike777 how come you're so sure 4h is rkc for diamonds if 3d was artificial? I would probably stop in 7D after

1S 2H 3C 3D 4D 4N 5S 5nt 7d from N who hasnt shown his solid spades yet

[mike777]

gwnn, on Aug 31 2009, 04:47 AM, said:

mike777 how come you're so sure 4h is rkc for diamonds if 3d was artificial? I would probably stop in 7D after

1S 2H 3C 3D 4D 4N 5S 5nt 7d from N who hasnt shown his solid spades yet

good question because:
1) 2h is 100% game force.
2) 4h over 4d is the only way to rkc in diamonds.(kickback)
3) if south really had a one suited hand in h they would have to start with 3h over 3c. 4c over 3c would have been a slam try in clubs(not rkc). 4d over 3c would have been rkc for clubs(kickback) 3s over 3c would have been a slam try in spades. 3h over 3c would have been natural and of course game forcing.
4) 4nt over 4d would have been natural to play since 3d did not promise real d suit.
5) bottom line this type of 4sf auction comes up often enough that we have discussed how to rkc(kickback) over it.

[paulg]

mike777, on Aug 31 2009, 07:57 PM, said:

5) bottom line this type of 4sf auction comes up often enough that we have discussed how to rkc(kickback) over it.

You must play a lot more bridge than I do, since I can never remember raising a 3-level bid of 4th suit forcing .... of course, my memory is going.

Paul

[Quantumcat]

The club suit play:

Try the ace and then leading the jack. If West has queen doubleton (or queen third and covers), then we just lose the ten. If East has the queen doubleton, we can finesse West's ten. This also takes care of ten doubleton in either hand. This line wins whenever the queen and ten are split or are both with West.

Does anyone have a better line?

[cherdanno]

About the bidding: After 1♠-2♥, I think North should bid 3♦ not 3♣. Obviously we are introducing a minor because we are interested in slam. Whichever minor we are interested in, we may lose the other (assuming our agreements aren't as good as mike777's). And of course AKQx is a much more likely to suit to play slam in than K8xx.

[cherdanno]

Quantumcat, on Aug 31 2009, 09:34 PM, said:

The club suit play:

Try the ace and then leading the jack. If West has queen doubleton (or queen third and covers), then we just lose the ten. If East has the queen doubleton, we can finesse West's ten. This also takes care of ten doubleton in either hand. This line wins whenever the queen and ten are split or are both with West.

Does anyone have a better line?

Yes, and Andy posted it already.

[aguahombre]

cherdanno, on Aug 31 2009, 09:42 PM, said:

About the bidding: After 1♠-2♥, I think North should bid 3♦ not 3♣. Obviously we are introducing a minor because we are interested in slam. Whichever minor we are interested in, we may lose the other (assuming our agreements aren't as good as mike777's). And of course AKQx is a much more likely to suit to play slam in than K8xx.

yep

[gnasher]

cherdanno, on Sep 1 2009, 03:42 AM, said:

About the bidding: After 1♠-2♥, I think North should bid 3♦ not 3♣. Obviously we are introducing a minor because we are interested in slam. Whichever minor we are interested in, we may lose the other (assuming our agreements aren't as good as mike777's). And of course AKQx is a much more likely to suit to play slam in than K8xx.

I agree, but it may not help us that much. After
  1♠-2♥
  3♦-4♦
I would play 4♥ and 4♠ as suggesting playing there (but maybe I shouldn't?)

That would leave North with the unattractive alternatives of 4NT and 5♣.

Edit: Sorry, that's a rather ill thought-out post. After 1♠-2♥;3♦, I'd bid 4♣ to agree diamonds and show ♣A. The problem I envisaged would arise only if you play the fourth suit as natural in this situation.

Would anybody have the confidence to bid 1♠-2♥;3♦-4[CL/DI];5♥?

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2009-September-01, 04:03

[nigel_k]

gnasher, on Aug 31 2009, 04:26 AM, said:

What about
5) Cash A, run J, cash K - loses to Qx and QTxx offside

That seems to lose to the same number of layouts as line 3, but the layouts it loses to are all 4-2 breaks, and less likely than 3-3 breaks.

This is best I think.

You could equally cash Ace, lead towards the jack, then cash king. Gains on QTxx and Qx in East but loses to Qx or QTxx in West.

Similarly, cash Ace and lead towards the nine. Only change is you lose to Tx in West instead of Qx, but gives RHO with Qxxx a chance to go wrong or give the show away especially if you do it quickly. Running the jack would be anti-percentage if the nine loses but only if you're sure RHO would be smooth with Qxx.