[Apollo81]

A couple of interesting hands from the weekend, on a similar theme. You are playing North American standard carding.

1. You hold ♣AJ987 and your opponents get to 3NT on the non-competitive auction 2♣-2♦-2NT-3NT. Partner leads the ♣2 and dummy has ♣xx. How do you defend?

2. You hold ♠Ax ♥AJ842 ♦Jxx ♣T9x, left-hand opponent opens 1NT, all pass. Partner leads the ♥T and dummy hits with ♠Qxxx ♥Q ♦Qxxx ♣Jxxx. You win the ♥A. How do you defend?

[louisg]

1) Win the ace and return the 7. If I return the 8 and partner has KTxx, he might duck declarer's queen (playing me for A87 and a quick entry). Better for partner to think I have 4 cards than for him to think I have 3.

2) Call for the director (I have 14 cards).

[pooltuna]

basically I play simple defense. In 1) I win and return the ♣8 in 2) I return the ♥4

[shyams]

Here's my non-expert answer:

I think these are hands where the defenders need to have precise agreements in advance. IMHO, playing back the 4th best does not help! You are the only one who knows that declarer has 2/3 cards (if partner's lead is truly 4th best). So, I think the partnership agreement should be to return 2nd or 5th best (and not 4th best)

In case 1, if you held C. A87 you would return C8 which is indistinguishable from 4th best return from AJ987. If partner does not have a side suit entry to hand, he will duck declarer's (doubleton!) Q. To protect this, I think the correct return is either CJ or C7 (but not C8). CJ works when declarer has CQ; but C7 works better when declarer has CK (partner is unlikely to find a reason to unblock from CQTx2 on your CJ and declarer's CK)

In case 2, I think the correct return is HJ but I am not sure...

[Phil]

1. I hate to cop out on the 1st but I'd like to see my hand and the dummy.

2. Assuming we hold 5 hearts and we have an immaterial extra card somewhere else, I return the 4 (original 4th best). Pard will be able to figure out I have the J.

Quote

2) Call for the director (I have 14 cards).

I hope you did this before you looked at your 14.

[kenrexford]

On the first, partner presumably has Kxx(x) or Qxx(x). In either event, he might lead the deuce.

Let's assume the normal fourth best lead. If you lead back the 8, then, Declarer with Qx or Kx will be forced to play the honor. If declarer plays the King, presumably a nice Smith Echo will help out later. If he plays the Q, then partner started with Kxxx. If he lacks the 10, the Declarer just played 10-Q, which will seem odd to partner, but then again Declarer could have QJ109, for all he knows. If he has the 10, then he will suspect a funnt card.

But, if partner does not have the 10, he would never duck. Why would he, missing the QJ1098? There is no position here. So, he just assumes that you have four (or five) and wins to lead them back.

So, the specific issue is when partner has precisely K10xx and Declarer plays x-Q and might have QJ9x. Your 8 play makes partner think that you might have started with A87. So, in the end, I kind of like the 7 return. At least then partner can rule out A87. You have to have a partner who expects such stuff, though.

On the second, there is something to be said for the 2 return, for the saqme reason.

[cherdanno]

Despite Ken's lengthy speech, the ♣7 on the first one seems obvious to me, whether or not partner is a bridge player. If he is a bridge player, he would know that this can be made from 5 cards, if he doesn't, he won't consider this possibility - in either case, he will play us for four cards in the suit and play one more round, then see what happened.

On the second hand, I see no benefit to lying - I would just play back the systemic ♥4 and hope that partner guesses right, or that we get a second chance to continue hearts.

[kenrexford]

cherdanno, on Aug 24 2009, 05:01 PM, said:

Despite Ken's lengthy speech, the ♣7 on the first one seems obvious to me, whether or not partner is a bridge player. If he is a bridge player, he would know that this can be made from 5 cards, if he doesn't, he won't consider this possibility - in either case, he will play us for four cards in the suit and play one more round, then see what happened.

On the second hand, I see no benefit to lying - I would just play back the systemic ♥4 and hope that partner guesses right, or that we get a second chance to continue hearts.

I agree with your first point, even if I was to wordy.

That said, why then do you describe the play of the deuce as a "lie" on the second? Seems a tad inconsistent.

[Apollo81]

louisg, on Aug 24 2009, 04:57 PM, said:

(I have 14 cards).

I have removed a spade from the original 3-5-3-3 distribution.

[Apollo81]

Phil, on Aug 24 2009, 05:49 PM, said:

1. I hate to cop out on the 1st but I'd like to see my hand and the dummy.

2. Assuming we hold 5 hearts and we have an immaterial extra card somewhere else, I return the 4 (original 4th best). Pard will be able to figure out I have the J.

Quote

2) Call for the director (I have 14 cards).

I hope you did this before you looked at your 14.

1. You don't need to.

2. You only had two spades.

[Apollo81]

shyams, on Aug 24 2009, 05:22 PM, said:

I think these are hands where the defenders need to have precise agreements in advance.

No agreements will cover every possible situation you encounter on defense. I found these hands interesting because while the standard play is to return original fourth best, if you think about it you will realize that this is not the correct play on either of these hands. You and partner can always get the defense right on both without any special nonstandard agreements if you choose your return wisely.

It is refreshing to encounter simple hands that remind you that bridge is a thinking game and that you cannot always play cards "automatically".

[Apollo81]

To address the crowd in general:

1. Several of you have correctly deduced that you must return the ♣7, because if you return the ♣8, partner with an original holding of ♣KTxx may play you for ♣A87. If you return the 7, partner will either duck or overtake with the ♣T and play the ♣K, attempting to drop declarer's queen. Either way, you win.

2. The second hand is the exact same theme, but a little more complicated. I'll give y'all more time on this one.

[skjaeran]

Agree with the ♣7 return on the first hand.

On the second hand, I assume partner has KT9x.
If I return the ♥4 or the ♥2, partner might read this as A42 or Ax42, and we won't be able to cash all our five tricks in the suit. Partner will think he need another lead from me through declarers jack.

What I can do though, is to return the jack. For the time being blocking the suit, but giving me the opportunity to force us to cash four tricks in the suit. I'll follow up with the ♥8 and 4, to make it obvious to partner that I've got the ♠A as an entry for the fifth heart still in my hand.

[WesleyC]

I agree with the C7 on the first hand - a simple solution to a likely layout, but on hand 2 I think I'll stick with the H4. I don't think I could play a different heart in tempo anyway.

Couldn't returning the HJ go disastrously wrong if partner has led QT9x?

[Fluffy]

The queen is in dummy wesley, but 109xx or 109x are possible (but rare).

the hurry up to play the Jack works when opp has very strogn minors and lacks spade king, not very normal, but possible I guess.

[WesleyC]

What about the OTHER Qh then?

[y66]

#2 So, is it totally crazy to play H8 then CT, hoping p has KT9x of hearts and a minor suit king that needs help setting up before we set up spade tricks for declarer?

[Apollo81]

The solution to the second one is to play the ♥8 or ♥J.

If you play the ♥4 and partner has ♥KT9xx, he will switch suits, assuming you hold ♥A42 and declarer held ♥J8xx. He will get it right if he held ♥KT9x.

If you play the ♥2 and partner has ♥KT9x, he will switch suits, assuming you hold ♥Ax42. He will get it right if he held ♥KT9xx.

The ♥8 has better chances than the above cards. An alert partner holding ♥KT9x should realize that you did not start with ♥A8x when declarer fails to cover the ♥8. If partner started with 5 hearts, the defense will be trivial.

If you play the ♥J, the worst that will happen is that you foul the suit when partner has ♥KT9x. In this case, the sequence J-8-4 will allow partner to defend correctly, as Harald pointed out.

On the actual deal, partner held 5 hearts, ♠Kxx, and ♣Qx, so you must take the first 7 tricks to set the contract.

-Noble