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Pass for Penalties now or open 1NT earlier

#1 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-17, 15:03

If not what now?


Dealer: East
Vul: EW
Scoring: IMP
KJ96
AKJ43
K
J85


West North East South

 -     -     Pass  1
 1    Dbl   Pass  ?

Wayne Burrows

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True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#2 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-August-17, 23:59

I'm not confident about it but I will bid 1NT now. I would not open 1NT with 4-5/5-4 majors. Had the 4-5 been another combination, 1NT opening is okay, for me.
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#3 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 03:02

Passing for penalties might work well , especially if LHO is an aggressive overcaller.

If you don't like penalty passes "under the trumps" on the 1 level , I think the alternative is 2NT, 1NT is an underbid.

I think 2NT rebid in competition should not be 18-19, it is needed for "strong notrump strength" hands with length in opps suit.
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#4 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 03:32

Weren't there 2-3 threads on this a bit earlier and most people agreed that with a non-minimum unbalanced hand with a good 4 card holding in their suit best is to pass for penalties? I don't have much experience about this situation (it seems to come up rarely) so I'll believe them.
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#5 User is offline   rd6789 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 05:06

To open 1NT on a 4513 shape seems ridiculous,

Ok now you are in a tricky spot, but I think 1NT here would be 12-14, with 18-19 I can bid 3NT so that leaves 2NT which seems right - a semi-balanced 15-17 hand
richard
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#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 05:25

2 = GF, jumps are invitational

so 2NT for me. I need better texture in spades to pass.
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#7 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 05:35

rd6789, on Aug 18 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

To open 1NT on a 4513 shape seems ridiculous,

Ok now you are in a tricky spot, but I think 1NT here would be 12-14, with 18-19 I can bid 3NT so that leaves 2NT which seems right - a semi-balanced 15-17 hand

4=5=1=3 is hardly ideal but you aren't that well placed with this hand after

1 1NT

even

1 2 and 1 2 aren't that great. I suppose you will have to introduce your spades but if 2minor is not game force then your hand is not that great.

Not that I am saying that you should open 1NT but I think ridiculous is an overbid.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#8 User is offline   rd6789 

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  Posted 2009-August-18, 07:37

Cascade, on Aug 18 2009, 06:35 AM, said:

rd6789, on Aug 18 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

To open 1NT on a 4513 shape seems ridiculous,

Ok now you are in a tricky spot, but I think 1NT here would be 12-14, with 18-19 I can bid 3NT so that leaves 2NT which seems right - a semi-balanced 15-17 hand

4=5=1=3 is hardly ideal but you aren't that well placed with this hand after

1 1NT

even

1 2 and 1 2 aren't that great. I suppose you will have to introduce your spades but if 2minor is not game force then your hand is not that great.

Not that I am saying that you should open 1NT but I think ridiculous is an overbid.


if partner bids at the 2 level I think I am well-placed - I bid 2 and we get to 3NT or an appropriate game.

After a 1NT response I can bid 2 can't I ?

I am ok opening 1NT on 5422 but with a singelton K and so many values in the majors it does seem very off centre ...
richard
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#9 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 07:42

Agree with Cascade wrt the merits of a 1NT opening.

I think I bid 2 now.
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#10 User is offline   rd6789 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 08:54

helene_t, on Aug 18 2009, 08:42 AM, said:

Agree with Cascade wrt the merits of a 1NT opening.

unless you do it a lot my worry opening 45 in the majors in 1NT would be: how you find your 5-3 heart fit playing 4-card stayman and your 4-4 spade fit playing 5-card stayman
richard
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#11 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 13:34

I think 'terrible' is a value bid, not an underbid. You have 9 cards in the majors and a singleton. Maybe with a 3-6-3-1 though... ;)
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#12 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 13:38

gwnn, on Aug 19 2009, 07:34 AM, said:

I think 'terrible' is a value bid, not an underbid. You have 9 cards in the majors and a singleton. Maybe with a 3-6-3-1 though... ;)

On the scale is "terrible" before or after "ridiculous"?
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#13 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 13:47

Whoops that was an error ;)

I think terrible is a little better than ridiculous, so maybe ridiculous was a slight overbid.
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#14 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 14:25

Repeat after me....

This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore ;)
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#15 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 14:26

What is Flannery?

And btw, how many front doors lead out directly onto a bus route?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
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#16 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 14:38

pooltuna, on Aug 19 2009, 08:25 AM, said:

Repeat after me....

This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore ;)

Perfect. We discover our misfit at the two-level instead of the one-level.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#17 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 14:48

and alert opponents of it.


Please don't use the F* word on this forums, there might be children reading.
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#18 User is offline   bid_em_up 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 14:49

jillybean, on Aug 18 2009, 03:26 PM, said:

And btw, how many front doors lead out directly onto a bus route?

Hopefully none. I'd much prefer that they lead out to the bus stop, and not directly into the bus route. ;)
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
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#19 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 15:03

Hm this is all I found. They were vulnerable and it was MP.

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...ndpost&p=296368
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#20 User is offline   cherdanno 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 16:32

Cascade, on Aug 18 2009, 03:38 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Aug 19 2009, 08:25 AM, said:

Repeat after me....

This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore
This hand is why I will not hate Flannery anymore  :)

Perfect. We discover our misfit at the two-level instead of the one-level.

And won't be able to show our extra strength beyond the 3-level.
"Are you saying that LTC merits a more respectful dismissal?"
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