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Style of overcalling II Equal Level Conversion (ELC)

Poll: How off-shape are your T/O doubles? (66 member(s) have cast votes)

How off-shape are your T/O doubles?

  1. I double. I play ELC (9 votes [13.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.64%

  2. I overcall 1 spade (20 votes [30.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.30%

  3. I overcall 2 diamonds WTP? (15 votes [22.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.73%

  4. I pass WTP? (18 votes [27.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.27%

  5. Others (4 votes [6.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.06%

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#1 User is offline   vincit 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 09:32

You have :




RHO opens 1♥ what do you bid ?

Does the type of scoring affect your decision ?
Your opinion : ELC vs Standard (X + suit = Strong Hand)
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 10:05

good hand also for raptor and kgr 2m bids.

I don't like/play either of those so I have to bid 1♠.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#3 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 10:22

Pass. ♥xxx warns me off.
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#4 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 10:26

Looks like ELC to me.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 10:35

Phil, on Aug 14 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

Pass. ♥xxx warns me off.

yup. ELC is good idea. This doesn't look like the right hand, what with 3 hearts. Feel a number coming on for them if I do something. For us if I don't.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#6 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 11:33

ELC is fine if the opponents are constrained to keep the bidding low.

It is not so good if they pre-empt.

After (1♥) X (4♥) ?

Partner is poorly placed when she doesn't know if you can tolerate clubs.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#7 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 14:09

I would bid 1♠ but it is close to pass
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#8 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 14:22

Pass or 1♠, depending on how agressive I want to be.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#9 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 15:52

Cascade, on Aug 14 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

ELC is fine if the opponents are constrained to keep the bidding low.

It is not so good if they pre-empt.

After (1♥) X (4♥) ?

Partner is poorly placed when she doesn't know if you can tolerate clubs.

Maybe I'm an eternal optomist, but when the auction goes 1♥-X-4♥, and the opponents usually have a ten-card fit, we seems to have a fit too.

So, if I have three hearts, that means partner has a void in hearts.

If he doesn't have four spades, and wants to venture out into a minor, he must have at least 10 cards in the minors.

So, if partner guesses to bid 5♣, I'll take a wild leap of faith and assume he has at least three diamonds with me. When he has 3028 or worse, I'll apologize for pulling his club bid.

So, the ELC still seems to work.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#10 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 16:19

Other: 2♥ showing 4+ spades, 5+ diamonds and a reasonable overcall in strength :)

2♠ would be a similar hand with spades and clubs.
With a weak two style spade hand, overcall 1, 3 or pass.
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#11 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 16:51

Only rarely do I have PD's to play ELC, so assuming no ELC, it is 1♠ for me, getting the boss suit into the action right away.

I don't hate a Micheals 2♥ here but really strive to be 55 or at least have 5♠ for Mike.

I'd never pass this and if somehow not allowed to bid 1♠ I bid 2♦

1♠
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#12 User is offline   kennye 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 17:14

If I don't double, I am basically out of the auction. If I overcall 2D I may very well lose the spade suit which is the master suit. If partner bids 2C I can over-rule with 2D. the only thing that really hurts is a jump to 3C in which case I try to smile unconvincingly.
Ken Eichenbaum - plays as kennye on BBOL
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#13 User is offline   shevek 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 17:45

1♠, 3 honours.

I play ELC, though this forum frowns on it. Don't like the strength and stiff club. If you gave me a 4-2-5-2 14-count, I would double.
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#14 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 18:51

1S always.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#15 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 18:54

The_Hog, on Aug 15 2009, 12:51 AM, said:

1S always.

When is it too weak for 1♠ for you ron? ♦KJ10xx, ♦QJ10xx...?
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#16 User is offline   shevek 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 19:56

kenrexford, on Aug 14 2009, 04:52 PM, said:

Cascade, on Aug 14 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

ELC is fine if the opponents are constrained to keep the bidding low.

It is not so good if they pre-empt.

After (1♥) X (4♥) ?

Partner is poorly placed when she doesn't know if you can tolerate clubs.

Maybe I'm an eternal optomist, but when the auction goes 1♥-X-4♥, and the opponents usually have a ten-card fit, we seems to have a fit too.

So, if I have three hearts, that means partner has a void in hearts.

If he doesn't have four spades, and wants to venture out into a minor, he must have at least 10 cards in the minors.

So, if partner guesses to bid 5♣, I'll take a wild leap of faith and assume he has at least three diamonds with me. When he has 3028 or worse, I'll apologize for pulling his club bid.

So, the ELC still seems to work.

Agree with that.

However, (1♥) X (2♥) 3♣

is not so pleasant. This time a conversion to 3♦ may not fair well, opposite 3-2-2-6 or similar.
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#17 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 21:40

kenrexford, on Aug 15 2009, 09:52 AM, said:

Cascade, on Aug 14 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

ELC is fine if the opponents are constrained to keep the bidding low.

It is not so good if they pre-empt.

After (1♥) X (4♥) ?

Partner is poorly placed when she doesn't know if you can tolerate clubs.

Maybe I'm an eternal optomist, but when the auction goes 1♥-X-4♥, and the opponents usually have a ten-card fit, we seems to have a fit too.

So, if I have three hearts, that means partner has a void in hearts.

If he doesn't have four spades, and wants to venture out into a minor, he must have at least 10 cards in the minors.

So, if partner guesses to bid 5♣, I'll take a wild leap of faith and assume he has at least three diamonds with me. When he has 3028 or worse, I'll apologize for pulling his club bid.

So, the ELC still seems to work.

1. It seems to me that ten hearts are no more likely than 9 on that auction in practice but maybe I am biased there. My opponents always seem to have nine when I bid on to disaster.

2. Having a fit and wanting to be at the five-level are different things. Sure you might have a fit when partner is 3=6 or whatever in diamonds and clubs but she might be more than happy playing in a club suit opposite support but not so entralled about the prospect of playing in diamonds in a 3=5 fit.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#18 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 23:05

Fluffy, on Aug 15 2009, 07:54 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Aug 15 2009, 12:51 AM, said:

1S always.

When is it too weak for 1♠ for you ron? ♦KJ10xx, ♦QJ10xx...?

No, I would bid 1S with these examples as well.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#19 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 23:32

The_Hog, on Aug 15 2009, 12:05 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Aug 15 2009, 07:54 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Aug 15 2009, 12:51 AM, said:

1S always.

When is it too weak for 1♠ for you ron? ♦KJ10xx, ♦QJ10xx...?

No, I would bid 1S with these examples as well.

Ron and I don't always agree about bidding, but we agree here.
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#20 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2009-August-15, 02:29

I really have a hard time chosing between pass and 1♠. I think most of the time, pass will be easier/better to handle
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