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The five level belongs to who?

#21 User is offline   cherdanno 

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Posted 2009-August-13, 18:42

Cascade, on Aug 13 2009, 07:28 PM, said:

5 down two.

RHO didn't really have a 4 bid - only four trumps but with a stiff heart. That meant that Qxx was offside for the second undertrick. Partner had xx yuk.

This was just a sanity check that 5 wasn't completely beyond the pale.

Why is a hand with four spades and a singleton heart not a 4 bid? Looks very normal to me.
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#22 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-13, 19:34

cherdanno, on Aug 14 2009, 12:42 PM, said:

Cascade, on Aug 13 2009, 07:28 PM, said:

5 down two.

RHO didn't really have a 4 bid - only four trumps but with a stiff heart.  That meant that Qxx was offside for the second undertrick.  Partner had xx yuk.

This was just a sanity check that 5 wasn't completely beyond the pale.

Why is a hand with four spades and a singleton heart not a 4 bid? Looks very normal to me.

Five trumps is more normal. Especially opposite a 3rd seat opening. The singleton heart is good for 4 but it is too easy to have a hand where 4 is too high. On the actual hand - sorry I don't have the hand record - par was 4 minus one with both sides having 9 tricks available.
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I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
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#23 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-August-13, 20:45

5 seems reasonable to me (as does double).

With 4 spades and a singleton heart RHO has made a good 4 bid to give us this problem. He has achieved two things. He doesn't have to decide whether or not to sell out to 4 when both games might be making, and he has given us this tough decision now. If RHO had made a cheaper bid, we could bid 4 then pass a later 4 (NF) having shown our hand.

BTW, the phrase 'the five level belongs to the opponents' refers to bidding five over five, not to bidding at the five level over 4..
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#24 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2009-August-13, 20:55

My style is to double pretty light facing a passed hand so 5H is just too rich for my blood.

I might be tempted to double but I think ill just pass.
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#25 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-August-13, 21:02

and, by the way....it is "belongs to whom". Surprised no one jumped on that.
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#26 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 00:03

aguahombre, on Aug 14 2009, 05:02 AM, said:

and, by the way....it is "belongs to whom". Surprised no one jumped on that.

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#27 User is offline   oxyde 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 03:56

Suprising that nobody highlighted partner still had his word to say.

I basically pass waiting for another double, action he should do whenever we are worth the 5th level.
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#28 User is offline   marcD 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 04:03

Cascade, on Aug 13 2009, 07:28 PM, said:

5 down two.

RHO didn't really have a 4 bid - only four trumps but with a stiff heart. That meant that Qxx was offside for the second undertrick. Partner had xx yuk.

This was just a sanity check that 5 wasn't completely beyond the pale.

Seems 4 was perfect . It may be occasionnally too high but it is much better to mix it up rather than offer a roadmap to law addict opponents.
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#29 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 04:13

Cascade, on Aug 14 2009, 02:34 AM, said:

On the actual hand - sorry I don't have the hand record - par was 4 minus one with both sides having 9 tricks available.

If both sides have 9 tricks, par is 3 at r/r.
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#30 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 09:13

marcD, on Aug 14 2009, 05:03 AM, said:

Cascade, on Aug 13 2009, 07:28 PM, said:

5 down two.

RHO didn't really have a 4 bid - only four trumps but with a stiff heart.  That meant that Qxx was offside for the second undertrick.  Partner had xx yuk.

This was just a sanity check that 5 wasn't completely beyond the pale.

Seems 4 was perfect . It may be occasionnally too high but it is much better to mix it up rather than offer a roadmap to law addict opponents.

Or to offer a roadmap to Law-addicted partner. On this hand there were 18 trumps and 18 tricks. LC is happy. 3S would have offered up a one IMP Loss to "par" because nobody would likely double 4H. 4S offers up minus 7 IMPs to par if doubled, 6 if not, and 5 if the other table defends 4H.
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#31 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 11:01

helene_t, on Aug 14 2009, 10:13 PM, said:

Cascade, on Aug 14 2009, 02:34 AM, said:

On the actual hand - sorry I don't have the hand record - par was 4 minus one with both sides having 9 tricks available.

If both sides have 9 tricks, par is 3 at r/r.

You are correct.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#32 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-14, 11:03

oxyde, on Aug 14 2009, 09:56 PM, said:

Suprising that nobody highlighted partner still had his word to say.

I basically pass waiting for another double, action he should do whenever we are worth the 5th level.

I don't think partner who has already had something to say and knows that we are a passed hand is going to play us for this much at this level if we PASS.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

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