[jillybean]

Playing 2/1 partner opens 1M , with a gf xx42 hand do you start with 2♣ or 2♦?

[aguahombre]

how about a third choice for us old fuddies who show 5 with both minor suit bids, and don't play j2n and can use 2NT the old fashioned way?

[neilkaz]

4+♦ WTP?

[Jlall]

2C, clubs or bal GF.

If I don't have that agreement but am playing with an expert I will assume it. If I don't have that agreement and am playing with a non expert or old fashioned person I would bid 2D (and hate it).

[jillybean]

Jlall, on Aug 11 2009, 08:21 PM, said:

2C, clubs or bal GF.

If I don't have that agreement but am playing with an expert I will assume it. If I don't have that agreement and am playing with a non expert or old fashioned person I would bid 2D (and hate it).

Thats good! When I play this at the club people can't believe it, I thought I'd picked up another bad habit. I like 1M:2♣ gf.

[jillybean]

aguahombre, on Aug 11 2009, 06:58 PM, said:

how about a third choice for us old fuddies who show 5 with both minor suit bids, and don't play j2n and can use 2NT the old fashioned way?

Old fuddie duddies dont play 2/1 do they.

[Phil]

5+ is standard in nearly all my partnerships, and I wish it were in the others.

[aguahombre]

jillybean, on Aug 11 2009, 10:28 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Aug 11 2009, 06:58 PM, said:

how about a third choice for us old fuddies who show 5 with both minor suit bids, and don't play j2n and can use 2NT the old fashioned way?

Old fuddie duddies dont play 2/1 do they.

this one does, but not j2n. Still the system is a bit souped up, and seems to work

[gwnn]

I think this (agreeing to 2+♣, 5+♦) almost requires artificial follow-ups to 2♣. Some of them can get pretty complicated (comparable in length to the whole acbl sayc booklet). jmoo here.

[Fluffy]

Looks like I am old fashioned here, given that I have support for partner and am gonna bid 2/3 of his mayor next, I think 2 diamonds will help partner to evaluate much better.

[helene_t]

Another option:

1♥-2♦ is 5+. With 3343 bid 2♣.
1♠-2♦ is 4+ if 2♣ is naturalish. 2♣ on a doubleton goes too far.

[Fluffy]

but helene, there is people who wishes to bid 1♥-2♦ with 4243 to show the GF values and save space (I have seen a couple of times where it would had worked pretty well, but I didn't yet try it myself).

Anyway, I am with you, I would also bid 2♣ with 3343.


If you normally bid 2 clubs on doubleton I guess you need an artificial bid after 1M-2♣-3♣ that says we do not have a fit.

[jillybean]

Fluffy, opener never supports ♣'s after 1M:2♣ Their options are 2M (could be minimum hand, not 6M!), 2oM, 2D, 2N.

[Fluffy]

oh, great lol.

But never say never jilly.

[jillybean]

Fluffy, on Aug 12 2009, 06:45 AM, said:

oh, great lol.

But never say never jilly.

Youre right I shouldnt say never, 3♣ is fine when you are 7006

By keeping 2♦ as full 5 cards you know immediately if you have a ♦ fit, perhaps double fit if you have bid 2♦ on the way to supporting partners major.

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on Aug 12 2009, 06:11 AM, said:

but helene, there is people who wishes to bid 1♥-2♦ with 4243 to show the GF values and save space

People who wouldn't bid 1S with that example must be playing flannery, or don't trust their follow-up bidding. I cannot imagine going out of my way to show an unbalanced hand with a balanced hand. The saving of bidding room is an illusion if partner gets a distorted picture in the process.

[gwnn]

Kathryn, in the relays Han taught me

1♠-2♣
3♣

showed a good hand with 5-5 (and I think it's something that is usual in this style). Why not bid 3♣ with 5-5? You can describe your hand relatively cheaply.

[fromageGB]

jillybean, on Aug 12 2009, 02:16 AM, said:

Playing 2/1 partner opens 1M , with a gf xx42 hand do you start with 2♣ or 2♦?

I bid 2♥ if my partner's major was spades, as I must have at least 5 hearts if my shape is xx42. (We have other gf bids with 3 card trump support.)
Similarly if partner's major is hearts, I bid 1NT (5+ spades, unlimited, or you would bid 1♠ unlimited if not playing Kaplan inversion).

This means that 1M 2m is a 5 card suit. Much simpler.

[Jlall]

Agree that relays is better but even if just bidding natural I find 2C with bal or clubs to be fine/good/much better than bidding 2D on bal hands with 4.

[gwnn]

Jlall, on Aug 12 2009, 08:21 PM, said:

Agree that relays is better but even if just bidding natural I find 2C with bal or clubs to be fine/good/much better than bidding 2D on bal hands with 4.

If playing natural, should 3♣ show 4 or 5? Also how about opener's splinters?