[tseager44]

I have modified the steps responses to the 2c opener. They are now using 0-3 pts bid 2d .. 4-6 bid 2h etc.

My new modified system I use in our club is:
with 0-3 pts bid the 2 level with 4 card suit or if your 4 card suit is c then bid 2nt

with 4-9 pts you bid the 3 level with your 5 card suit or if no 5 crd bid 3nt

with 10+ pts bid 4 level with 5 card suit or go directly to 4nt and as for aces.

This system tells your partner immediatly:
2 level bid..not going game or slam and a suit
3 level bid.. going at least game and a suit
4 level bid.. going slam and a suit

Any thoughts on this new modified system???

[Quantumcat]

What if opener doesn't have a hand that knows what strain to be in, which is difficult to describe and needs responder's help in choosing the strain? Now he has no room.

Imagine this:

---

2♣ 4♠

Now what? 7♥ or 6NT is a good contract, how are you going to get there instead of spades?

[tseager44]

I have found that the opener usually knows where he would like to be. His partner is only giving him info to help him....thus you will be better informed as to his points, how far you normally could go and his suit. Which is more in one bid than a 2D waiting or normal step response would give you. ALL in one bid...

Yes, like anything, it may have a few drawbacks, but in the long run, My partner and I have averaged best boards the majority of times. And thats what you want in tournaments..the best..

try it for a while..you may find you like it..

ted

[Quantumcat]

Points aren't that useful, and as you said, opener usually knows what suit he wants to play in, so knowing his suit is also useless.

What about this:

You hold,
♠7
♥AKQJT54
♦AK6
♣A2

And you have an auction 2♣ 3♠.

Does he hold:

♠A7654
♥76
♦QJ54
♣43

With 13 top tricks

Or does he hold:

♠KQJ65
♥76
♦JT65
♣43

Where you will lose 3 tricks and should stop in 4♥.

Is 4♥ forcing? Does he know to not bid with the second and keep bidding with the first? He doesn't. You have just wasted all of your space (already having lost a lot with the 2♣ opening to start with) and jeopardised any chance of getting to a good contract.

[Phil]

Don't like it.

If you're going to bother to try to set up a responding system to 2♣, saving space needs to be a primary concern.

[the hog]

Agree with Phil. I would never use this system. If you want to make a distinction between "waiting bids" and strong/weak hands, play:
2D = any positive
2H = all negatives
2S+ = semi positives

[nigel_k]

Just a waiting bid is better than what most people do, but I would suggest the following:

2♥ Natural positive but doesn't need much, eg Qxxxx and a king somewhere
2♠,2NT,3♣,3♦ Natural positive with at least three of each major
2♦ Anything else

The 2♥ positive is ok because it doesn't force opener any higher than he was going anyway. It also makes 3♥ available as a negative over opener's 3♣ or 3♦ as you cannot have a decent hand with hearts.

Since the other positives have three of each major, opener with a five card or longer major can set trumps by bidding his suit at the three level. There's no loss of space compared to e.g. 2♣-2♦-2♠-3♠, plus responder has contributed some extra information rather than using a full round to just communicate three card support.

After 2♣-2♦-2♥/♠ use 2NT as the negative since it's cheap and you likely won't play NT anyway.

[hotShot]

We use:
2♦ 0-3 HCP (Game might be impossible)
2♥ 4-7 HCP (Gameforcing)
2♠ 8-9 HCP (Slam is not impossible)
2NT, 3-of-a-suit 10+ HCP balanced/5+card suit
This does not take to much bidding space esp. when responder is weak.
Both opener and responder know how much bidding space is left.

[glen]

To show how a waiting bid (puppet/relay etc.) can be used for bidding space, let's make the proposed structure:

with 0-3 pts bid the 2 level with 4+ major, or bid 2♦ first

with 4-9 pts you bid 2♦ first

with 10+ pts bid 3 level with 5 good card suit or bid 2NT

2♣-2♦;-
--2♥: asking
----2♠: 4+♣s, no 4cM, 0-3
----2NT: 4+♦s, no other 4 card suit, 0-3
----3X: 4-9, natural

The cost of the waiting bid, compared to the proposed structure, is that 4+♦s 0-3 ends up having to bid 2NT, instead of the direct 2♦ bid to show this. However 10+ now rebids 2NT or 3X, instead of 4X or 4NT, 4+♣s 0-3 rebids 2♠ instead of 2NT, and after 2♣-2♦ (0-9, if 0-3 no 4cM), opener can bid above 2♥ naturally.

Keeping the 0-3s out of 2NT:

2♣-2♦;-
--2♥: asking
----2♠: 0-3, no 4cM. If opener now bids 2NT (non-forcing), responder bids 3m with a 5+ minor
----2NT and 3X: 4-9

[pooltuna]

usually the big hand needs specific information and needs all the bidding space it can get. Consequently IMO your scheme is sucking up too much space

[aguahombre]

Yep, staying out of the big hand's way is usually a good thing unless responder can show something really specific. the old fashioned major suit responses (2 of top 3), the old fashioned 2NT (balanced bunch of quacks), the old fashioned waiting 2D, and the old fashioned 3-level jumps have served us well. It ain't broken, so we haven't fixed it.

[Quantumcat]

This is what I use:

2D neg
2H positive but not a suit good enough to suggest as a trump suit (positive = A, K or 8+ HCP only 1 jack or 9+)
other: suit good quality enough to suggest as a trump suit
2NT=the above for hearts

and reverse kokish: 2H by opener puppets to 2S then 2NT shows 22-23, 2NT after 2D shows 24-25. Responder can choose to not bid 2S after 2H if they can't make 2NT opposite 22-23 balanced.

[Echognome]

The OP's system seems to be an effective preemptive system.

[Jlall]

OP forgot that if you have 13 points with a 5 card suit you should bid at the 5 level to begin with.

[aguahombre]

Jlall, on Aug 10 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

OP forgot that if you have 13 points with a 5 card suit you should bid at the 5 level to begin with.

subtle reinforcement of staying out of the way of the big hand, I assume....actually not that subtle. I recommend all my opponents take up as much room as possible as early as possible.

[NickRW]

Jlall, on Aug 11 2009, 01:31 AM, said:

OP forgot that if you have 13 points with a 5 card suit you should bid at the 5 level to begin with.

Meh. Just bid 6NT. 7 if you're feeling lucky.

[Free]

Preempting opener by showing your points and showing a little bit of shape is ridiculous and useless. If you really want to show something you can count, show controls! At least you'll know better where to stop and you can start looking for a fit at 3-level...