[the hog]

ochinko, on Aug 10 2009, 02:47 PM, said:

Lol, I am the only one who passed. If partner has opened in first or second position, I'd redouble, but here I am never raising the level when probably no side has a fit, and opps can easily have more points than us.

Don't your partners never open light in third? Especially at favorable. I won't consider 1♠ in any position, but that's just my style.

This business of a third seat opening really is a furphy. Just because it is a third seat opening does not mean it HAS to be light. You pass; this time your pd has a 15 count, but because you passed thinks you have rubbish. How are you going to convince him you have this much?

[ochinko]

The_Hog, on Aug 10 2009, 11:57 AM, said:

ochinko, on Aug 10 2009, 02:47 PM, said:

Lol, I am the only one who passed. If partner has opened in first or second position, I'd redouble, but here I am never raising the level when probably no side has a fit, and opps can easily have more points than us.

Don't your partners never open light in third? Especially at favorable. I won't consider 1♠ in any position, but that's just my style.

This business of a third seat opening really is a furphy. Just because it is a third seat opening does not mean it HAS to be light. You pass; this time your pd has a 15 count, but because you passed thinks you have rubbish. How are you going to convince him you have this much?

What's the worst that could happen if I pass? Partner has 15 HCP, and makes 1♥x +2 for 360 when 3NT was cold for 400. So we lose an imp, so what?

If instead partner had ♠xx ♥AQ10xx and a King in the minors any bid from me could turn a +160 into a -100 for a 6 imps loss.

[helene_t]

ochinko, on Aug 10 2009, 11:44 AM, said:

What's the worst that could happen if I pass? Partner has 15 HCP, and makes 1♥x +2 for 360 when we were cold for 3NT for 400. So we lose an imp, so what?

I don't think LHO will convert the double very often when we have doubleton support. He will bid something and we won't be able to show our values if p doesn't act.

[Jlall]

1S obv

[ochinko]

helene_t, on Aug 10 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

ochinko, on Aug 10 2009, 11:44 AM, said:

What's the worst that could happen if I pass? Partner has 15 HCP, and makes 1♥x +2 for 360 when we were cold for 3NT for 400. So we lose an imp, so what?

I don't think LHO will convert the double very often when we have doubleton support. He will bid something and we won't be able to show our values if p doesn't act.

That's easy too. With 6♥ partner would repeat them, with 15 HCP in her she'll double, but she could as well pass after which I'll reopen with a double, and instead of playing in our misfit doubled we'll play in opps' misfit doubled. Partner will know that: 1. I don't have 3 hearts, and 2. that I don't have a five cards suit which I would have bid earlier.

When opps propose to go down why would I insist for our pair to be set instead?

[marcD]

Interesting thead. I play that rdbl shows spades so It would be my choice ; however, playing standard do not see what's wrong with rdbl (guess i would take my chance with dbl over 2♦).
May this example just shows that the standard definition of redouble is pretty much useless

[gnasher]

Fluffy, on Aug 10 2009, 09:20 AM, said:

gnasher, on Aug 9 2009, 10:34 PM, said:

1♠, because I don't want to have to cope with
  rdbl 2♦ pass pass

I supose that this is not standard but I would easilly rebid 2♥ then, XX denies support for me.

And would your partner convert 2♥ to 2♠ when he has four of them? If not, you've allowed RHO's intervention to talk you out of a 4-4 fit and into a 5-2 fit.

[Fluffy]

yes he would, redouble denies support and shows at least 2* 4+ cards. When we bid 2♥ we are not having 4 diamonds so we must have 4 spades and 4 clubs (maybe 5)

[WesleyC]

I wouldn't consider anything other than 1S.

I like my partners to open aggressively in 3rd Seat, especially at Favourable, so I don't punish them by redoubling on soft hands like this one.

[y66]

marcD, on Aug 10 2009, 06:41 AM, said:

Interesting thead. I play that rdbl shows spades so It would be my choice ; however, playing standard do not see what's wrong with rdbl (guess i would take my chance with dbl over 2♦).
May this example just shows that the standard definition of redouble is pretty much useless

I learned to play that XX denies the ability to make a descriptive bid.

Good discussion of the other school of thought here by Marshall Miles, including add'l discussion of some of the interesting points raised on this thread.

If you try this link, scroll down to the discussion that starts on page 207 (7th one from the top for me).

[Codo]

I agree with Gonzalo, XX and later 2 ♥ over an undoubled 2 ♦ from them will describe my hand perfectly.

[bid_em_up]

gwnn, on Aug 9 2009, 05:37 PM, said:

whenever I bet w someone it's almost unanimous (sometimes I win sometimes I lose). it's awesome that yours is 8-8.

Unless the bet was how bad pass and/or 1N are compared to choosing XX or 1S.

[ArtK78]

1♠ is the obvious call.

That is what you would have bid if RHO had not doubled. Don't let the double change anything. Redouble should show values and the inability to make any other descriptive call.

[aguahombre]

ArtK78, on Aug 10 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

1♠ is the obvious call.

That is what you would have bid if RHO had not doubled.  Don't let the double change anything.  Redouble should show values and the inability to make any other descriptive call.

Yep. Maybe one of the reasons people double a 1-bid with 13 cards and 13 points(or fewer of each) is because it is so preemptive

The opening side gets new tools to abuse and abandons its normal bid and rebid system. Playing Cappelletti over 1MX, 1S is the only natural bid.

[pooltuna]

ArtK78, on Aug 10 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

1♠ is the obvious call.

That is what you would have bid if RHO had not doubled. Don't let the double change anything. Redouble should show values and the inability to make any other descriptive call.

Yeah, if you want to play it that way. For me I prefer to play XX=this is our hand and any other bidding is non forcing

[keylime]

1♠ with me (unless with Larry, then XX to show spades), and not even close. We have a clear bid with lead direction (let's say they play 2m XX, wouldn't you want a spade lead to pump a heart through?) You can always double back in to compete with this hand, and since we own the suit, let's bid it.

[Apollo81]

Love redouble. I can lead and continue trumps (against 1♠) without fear of blowing a trick. I can't even do that from KQJ8, so the ♠T is really a key factor here.

[the hog]

ochinko, on Aug 10 2009, 06:06 PM, said:

That's easy too. With 6♥ partner would repeat them, with 15 HCP in her she'll double, but she could as well pass after which I'll reopen with a double, and instead of playing in our misfit doubled we'll play in opps' misfit doubled.

Thats where you are erring. Why would partner bid again opposite a hand that has shown nothing? Why put your head in the noose for no reason. Good players do not bid their values twice.

[nige1]

TylerE, on Aug 9 2009, 03:58 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

p (p) 1♥ (x) ?
If you don't like the choices, just post it in a comment.

---

IMO XX = 10, _P = 6, 1♠ = 5, 1N = 4
A queen more and you would have opened, so XX can't be too far wrong.