[gwnn]

oh *****!!! partner invites and we're minimum so we don't accept!

[the hog]

kenrexford, on Aug 6 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Aug 5 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

Playing a 1NT response so that it can include GF hands is not that uncommon. Ken, this is about what is standard, and passing a FORCING 1NT is NOT standard.

Well, I doubt that you can find that many texts of standard 2/1 GF or K-S or other mainstream "forcing notrump" systems where 1NT can include 15-17. So, I assume that you alert rather than announcing the 1NT call? Plus, is it assumed that 1NT including 15-17 is so standard that you need not mention it in an OP?

I mean, if 1NT is "forcing" as normally defined, passing with an arguable sub-minimum opener because of a change of heart seems less damaging to the opponents than burying an unexpected 15-17 meaning into the otherwise "less than GF" expectation of the usual "forcing notrump." If you are going to get all critical and technical, then let's take that all the way, eh?

Now that is where you are wrong. Ihe semi forcing NT is a comparatively recent thing. Look at some of the older texts and you will see that balanced strong hands can be included.

[Quantumcat]

If including 13-17's in the 1NT response means I can't open this hand because I can't pass 1NT and may not be able to make 2NT opposite 10-11, I'd rather not include them and be able to open more often!

Anyway if your pard knows you open hands like this there really isn't a problem: he doesn't GF with balanced 13's anymore, he can just invite (invite would be 11-13 then). Means that with a 15 or 16 count as opener you may have to make a tiny extra noise but that's all. Same as people with only sound openings would do with a 16 or 17.

And opening light, you get the benefits of introducing a suit your partnership may want to compete with, which you may not have gotten the chance to overcall!

[aguahombre]

Quantumcat, on Aug 6 2009, 08:27 PM, said:

If including 13-17's in the 1NT response means I can't open this hand because I can't pass 1NT and may not be able to make 2NT opposite 10-11, I'd rather not include them and be able to open more often!

no one is asking you to play forcing NT. Your partners would like their forcing NT to be forcing....Play whatever you want, as long as partner is in on it....just don't call it a forcing NT

[the hog]

aguahombre, on Aug 7 2009, 12:00 PM, said:

Quantumcat, on Aug 6 2009, 08:27 PM, said:

If including 13-17's in the 1NT response means I can't open this hand because I can't pass 1NT and may not be able to make 2NT opposite 10-11, I'd rather not include them and be able to open more often!

no one is asking you to play forcing NT. Your partners would like their forcing NT to be forcing....Play whatever you want, as long as partner is in on it....just don't call it a forcing NT

The other alternative, of course, is to play a big club or diamond light opening system.

[aguahombre]

yep, but I am too old to change. Played Precision back in the CC Wei days, but who I consider the greatest mentor of all time explained the error of my ways.