[Chamaco]

Scoring: IMP

East deals and opens 3♠.

3♠-p-p-3NT
p-?

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3NT by pard is natural, to play, assuming you have a "normal" hand with about 7 hcp (Lawrence's "rule of 7").
What do you bid ?

(Additional question: would new suit at 4 level be a "rescue bid" = "Pard I have a yarborough, let's get outta this crazy 3NT" ?)

[inquiry]

This is why they preempt. Whatever you do (pass or bid) can be right or wrong. At imps, I would not play a new suit at the four level as lets get out of this contract unless we were doubled.

[NotButter]

Quote

3NT by pard is natural, to play, assuming you have a "normal" hand with about 7 hcp (Lawrence's "rule of 7").
What do you bid ?

(Additional question: would new suit at 4 level be a "rescue bid" = "Pard I have a yarborough, let's get outta this crazy 3NT" ?)

Chamaco,
I'm not sure why you asked this question as you answered it yourself but here goes:

- As you said, "3NT is to play" - To play ? Define to play?
- You mean most hands with say 14-16hcp and say ♠AQ?
- Or you mean a balanced 20 count with short hearts?
- Or an hand with ♠A or Kx and 6-7 self-sufficient hearts
- or any balanced 14-18 and something resembling a spade stop?

In other words, a wide range of hand types.

I think you need a very good reason to rip 3NT in this sequence.

Why torture partner with 4minor so he can go 1 off in 4NT?

Partner has expressed an opinion of the hand by bidding 3NT. Do you really want to punt 5minor? For what possible gain? As you pointed out, Partner has already bid a piece of your hand.

Chamaco, you have to learn to play with the odds in this game and the chances of partner having the right cards for 6 minor (or cards more suitable for 5 minor than 3NT) are way longer than your partnership's assets being right for 3NT.

Take the positive and put your hand down as dummy.

NotButter.

[Chamaco]

NotButter, on Jun 5 2004, 05:51 AM, said:

- As you said, "3NT is to play" - To play ? Define to play?

- You mean most hands with say 14-16hcp and say ♠AQ?
- Or you mean a balanced 20 count with short hearts?
- Or an hand with ♠A or Kx and 6-7 self-sufficient hearts
- or any balanced 14-18 and something resembling a spade stop?

In other words, a wide range of hand types.

I think you need a very good reason to rip 3NT in this sequence.

Why torture partner with 4minor so he can go 1 off in 4NT?

Partner has expressed an opinion of the hand by bidding 3NT. Do you really want to punt 5minor? For what possible gain? As you pointed out, Partner has already bid a piece of your hand.

Chamaco, you have to learn to play with the odds in this game and the chances of partner having the right cards for 6 minor (or cards more suitable for 5 minor than 3NT) are way longer than your partnership's assets being right for 3NT.

Take the positive and put your hand down as dummy.

NotButter.

Why do you say that you are not sure why I asked this question ?
It is obvious that I asked it because I believe it is not an easy choice and I want to improve my feeling for this preempt situations !
I just think that this hand has 6 losers (= equivalent in playing strength to a good opening hand) with an almost sure fit in a minor, and that makes it a candidate for slam.
3NT balancing cannot come from 14 balanced, it needs (if balanced) at least a good 1NT opening hand. With 14 balanced, N should sell out.

I think that this hand does not need the "perfect hand" by balancer, 2 Aces and diamond K (11 hcp) plus just a little more already put the slam in good shape.

The fact that I have an idea of my own does not exclude the fact that I am really not comfortable with any of the choice I have to do here

This is why I like to get to know how more experienced player think, and collect a number of cases like that to discuss with my regular partners, that's how I think partnerships are built (but maybe I have to learn more on that, too! ... )

In any case, I was the 3NT balancer, and held the following hand.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
N hand was:

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The curious fact is that pard passed and RHO balanced to 4 spades.

3S-p-p-3NT
p-p-4S- ?

Here, should I double or make a forcing pass leaving to pard choice ?
I doubled, and pard converted to 5D diamonds, making 6.
I am not sure whether I should have corrected to 6 diamonds (if pard bids 5 D on his own without info on my support, I may as well bid 6).
However, that was IMPS and not matchpoints (at matchpoints I do not like playing 5 minor if 3Nt was playable at all, and I often gamble to 6m), so did not want to lose game (besides, pard's pulling of the double suggested me he was much weaker than the actual hand).



A final note: this happened in a pickup partnership on BBO, with the obvious effects on the level of uncertainty in borderline auctions like this one.

[1eyedjack]

Quote

In any case, I was the 3NT balancer, and held the following hand.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
N hand was:

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ A53 ♥ AQ63 ♦ K76 ♣ AJ2

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The curious fact is that pard passed and RHO balanced to 4 spades.

3S-p-p-3NT
p-p-4S- ?

Here, should I double or make a forcing pass leaving to pard choice ?

I may be in a minority but I stick my neck out and say I would have doubled in preference to bidding 3N first time around. 3N has too much risk of converting a plus into a minus. My partners pass my double with a balanced hand.

A bit difficult to comment on the next round decision, as I would not be in that position.

Your problem is that you are fairly sure that 4S is going down but you do not know that you are making an alternative higher scoring game. Your lack of shape and minimal overall values suggests doubling to take the decision away from partner. Your Spade holding however could not be better for bidding on. Perhaps this is another problem with the initial 3N, although it is hard to predict that RHO will back in with 4S.

Nowt for it but some agreements. I would not condemn your subsequent action.

[the hog]

Your 3N bid is automatic. Partner's pass also cannot be criticised. X in your seat is a poor call. After the pass by you, pd should bid 5D

[Chamaco]

The_Hog, on Jun 6 2004, 12:01 AM, said:

Your 3N bid is automatic. Partner's pass also cannot be criticised. X in your seat is a poor call. After the pass by you, pd should bid 5D

Thanks Ron,
but I would like to understand the underlying reasons for me to choose pass rather than double, and, similarly, the thought process my pard should follow if I double or pass.

Thanks !!

[Free]

6♦, get it over with...

[mishovnbg]

Pass, game is reallity, slams are dreams
Misho

[dogsbreath]

Hi good problem i think..
..p may have pushed a bit, but could be strong. With regular p i will bid 4NT over his/her 3NT ..i think that with a source of tricks i must give p a second bid in this position.. 4NT looks right ..no H interest ..minor oriented hand.
Rgds Dog

Quote

furnulum pani nolo

[whereagles]

Chamaco, your side's bidding is just fine If it makes you feel good, here's a hand I held the other day, playing matchpoints:

♠ AQx
♥ x
♦ AQ9xx
♣ AKQT

2♠ p p ??

I bid 3NT as well, lol. That was passed all around. Pard came up with

♠ T
♥ A9xx
♦ KJxx
♣ xxxx

and 7m was cold. It even got worse, as they didn't lead a spade for the 12th trick.

But hey, not all was lost. I managed to strip the weak two bidder's hand and throw him in to force a return in to the spade tenace. +490 was good for 70% of the matchpoints

Balancing or direct 3NT bids after a preempt are very wide-ranging, especially after a 3-level pree. It's very hard to guess what pard has.. By the way, in the balancing position you should play pard for 9-10 points, not 7 (that's in direct seat).

[Trpltrbl]

Sometimes preempts just work, there is no X, so new suit is forcing.
But pd already used your points for his bid, just pass, and if you miss slam, it happens. That's why people preempt.

Mike